Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

by clennon8 Sat Nov 01, 2014 7:32 pm

Hi all. Here's a pretty cool fanfic that deals with an indoctrinated Shepard (oops, that's actually kind of a spoiler). It's also an alternate take on the clone story. Gods & Monsters

by **spotlessvoid** Sat Nov 01, 2014 7:50 pm

So indoctrination minus the ability to make others agree when they don't actually agree?

by Guest Sat Nov 01, 2014 8:51 pm

spotlessvoid wrote:So indoctrination minus the ability to make others agree when they don't actually agree?

When I think of a non-networked synthetic that rebels against other synthetics, I would call that thing a 'renegade'.

(XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV! - Page 25 10xbpeg

(XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV! - Page 25 10xbpeg

There may be something that lets Shepard 'cut off/destroy' any code in him (nanites) that would network with the Reapers.

But it wouldn't mean that Shepard would stop being as synthetic as he became. Even in the fully literal ME2-ME3 story, Shepard's scars only physically *reveal* how much tech is in him. That he is a reconstruction.

What I'm saying is that if indoctrination is synthetically based, rewriting the mind, then yes, a DEL(ete) function could be possible. The tech would still be there, but no longer the Reaper influence. Is that 'indoctrination' anymore? Maybe not, but it is something. Probably something more akin to a human using technology as a tool, which is the Shepard we're more used to in most of the story.

by **spotlessvoid** Sat Nov 01, 2014 9:40 pm

The limbic system is responsible for regulating the chemical states of the brain as well as other things such as long term memory. Controlling when endorphins adrenaline etc are released to manipulate cognitive function (what you call "mind" by altering which thoughts and behaviors are rewarded or discouraged. It doesn't even require directly controlling the cerebrum. The "mind" aka the intellect isn't under direct control.

Since Shepard is so fearless and emotionally stable, the limbic system is less dominant than in normal people. His emotions are not only harder to manipulate but have less impact on his cognitive function.

by smash016 Sat Nov 01, 2014 10:20 pm

For what it's worth, since this is a game and not science -- The limbic system is a large collection of anatomical structures and as such supports a whole list of functions. And as with most complex brain functions, memory and emotion are distributed across the brain and are more like emergent properties.

I feel that just throwing in some talk about a limbic system doesn't *really* explain how Reapers manipulate organics. It's good enough for a sci-fi game, but it stops right there. They could've picked something like "prefrontal cortex" instead and it wouldn't change a thing.

Also, individual variance in brain function probably is too small to account for the feats Shepard is capable of.

by ThatWhichYouKnowAsReapers Sat Nov 01, 2014 10:49 pm

S̕oon ́t̷he̛ ̕l̷eade͠r͠s͝ o̕f̀ y͜oùr ́p̢a̢lt͠ry w̛orld ẃi̶l̸l b͢e ̧o̵úr ̧p̸áwņs.
T͝h̵e͟ ơn͟e ̸c͢alļed Pu̡tin͢ alr͞e͠a̷dy ͢is͝.̕

by **spotlessvoid** Sat Nov 01, 2014 11:36 pm

ThatWhichYouKnowAsReapers wrote:S̕oon ́t̷he̛ ̕l̷eade͠r͠s͝ o̕f̀ y͜oùr ́p̢a̢lt͠ry w̛orld ẃi̶l̸l b͢e ̧o̵úr ̧p̸áwņs.
T͝h̵e͟ ơn͟e ̸c͢alļed Pu̡tin͢ alr͞e͠a̷dy ͢is͝.̕

struggling with the whole unemployment thing Casey?

by **spotlessvoid** Sat Nov 01, 2014 11:43 pm

smash016 wrote:For what it's worth, since this is a game and not science -- The limbic system is a large collection of anatomical structures and as such supports a whole list of functions. And as with most complex brain functions, memory and emotion are distributed across the brain and are more like emergent properties.

I feel that just throwing in some talk about a limbic system doesn't *really* explain how Reapers manipulate organics. It's good enough for a sci-fi game, but it stops right there. They could've picked something like "prefrontal cortex" instead and it wouldn't change a thing.

Also, individual variance in brain function probably is too small to account for the feats Shepard is capable of.

just simply untrue. manipulating the cerebrum directly requires massive manipulation through electrical signals to an enormous amount of redundant neurons to maintain cognitive unity. By simply inducing the release of certain chemicals you can effectively emotionally persuade the target to simply realign their thoughts themselves by self suppressing thoughts contradictory to the Reaper desired patterns.

by smash016 Sat Nov 01, 2014 11:54 pm

Not sure if you're still serious but let's drop this, it's not all that relevant anymore.

by **spotlessvoid** Sun Nov 02, 2014 12:30 am

lol, now it's irrelevant. I am serious. I'll take this as an admittance you don't know enough about this subject to respond.

by **DoomsdayDevice** Sun Nov 02, 2014 1:56 am

Spot is obviously completely serious, and he's also completely right. The lymbic system's main function is to control behaviour, motivation, emotion and long term memory.

You can say it's a game, and yes it is, but Bioware usually do their homework when it comes to this kind of 'science'. If one would want to explain mind control with at least some semblance of a proper scientific explanation, the lymbic system would absolutely be the way to go.

Wasn't it Walters who has a degree in psychology, or was that just hearsay?

Anyway.

by Hanako Ikezawa Sun Nov 02, 2014 2:22 am

by **DoomsdayDevice** Sun Nov 02, 2014 2:57 am

Um, might I ask what's the point of that video? I don't feel like sitting through 75 minutes of a 2013 Bioware panel just for the hell of it. Also, too much Priestly. ;)

Edit: zomg, that Vine wave to Bioware home office is absolutely vomit-inducing. Yeah, I've had enough.

by Hanako Ikezawa Sun Nov 02, 2014 3:06 am

DoomsdayDevice wrote:Um, might I ask what's the point of that video? I don't feel like sitting through 75 minutes of a 2013 Bioware panel just for the hell of it. Also, too much Priestly. ;)

Edit: zomg, that Vine wave to Bioware home office is absolutely vomit-inducing.

Oh, sorry. I thought it would start at a certain time. They talk about the Mass Effect 3 endings starting at around 37 minutes in.

by **DoomsdayDevice** Sun Nov 02, 2014 3:29 am

Ah, ok, thanks.

In that case, this is the correct link:

https://youtu.be/3xZMkX6qXvE?t=36m44s

by Rifneno Sun Nov 02, 2014 3:31 am

Anything new or the same old rhetoric?

by **DoomsdayDevice** Sun Nov 02, 2014 3:32 am

JFC, Priestly's saying a lot of the ending complaints came from bunch of bandwagon jumpers who never even played the games but just felt like hating on something.

by Hanako Ikezawa Sun Nov 02, 2014 3:35 am

Rifneno wrote:Anything new or the same old rhetoric?

If you mean that Chris Priestly has no idea what he is talking about and Patrick and Karin Weekes care for the fans, then yes.

by **DoomsdayDevice** Sun Nov 02, 2014 3:37 am

major lulz @ Priestly thinking Bioware is in a good spot now for deciding to release the EC for free and making the Citadel DLC.

by Hanako Ikezawa Sun Nov 02, 2014 3:40 am

I think Rif would find it fitting that Priestly compared the ending reaction to eating at a restaurant.

by **DoomsdayDevice** Sun Nov 02, 2014 3:42 am

What the hell is Weekes going on about when he says that from the start of the third game they foreshadowed pretty strongly that this was going to be the end of Shepard, that he was going to have to sacrifice himself...?

dubya-tee-eff

by **DoomsdayDevice** Sun Nov 02, 2014 3:46 am

Weekes: "It's just grief."

Yeah, right. If you think people were mad because Shepard had to die, then you have absolutely no fucking clue.

The problem was the star child and the whole Reaper motivation thing which created a plot hole the size of a fucking galaxy (when taken at face value).

JFC.

by Hanako Ikezawa Sun Nov 02, 2014 3:49 am

DoomsdayDevice wrote:Weekes: "It's just grief."

Yeah, right. If you think people were mad because Shepard had to die, then you have absolutely no fucking clue.

The problem was the star child and the whole Reaper motivation thing which created a plot hole the size of a fucking galaxy (when taken at face value).

JFC.

Well, there were and still are several threads complaining about Shepard dying, so I can see where he sees that as a major source of the upset feelings towards the endings.

It's far from the only reason, but it is a reason

by **DoomsdayDevice** Sun Nov 02, 2014 3:51 am

Yeah, that's it as far as the endings go. Same old rhetoric, with some very painful moments.

by Guest Sun Nov 02, 2014 6:38 am

ThatWhichYouKnowAsReapers wrote:S̕oon ́t̷he̛ ̕l̷eade͠r͠s͝ o̕f̀ y͜oùr ́p̢a̢lt͠ry w̛orld ẃi̶l̸l b͢e ̧o̵úr ̧p̸áwņs.
T͝h̵e͟ ơn͟e ̸c͢alļed Pu̡tin͢ alr͞e͠a̷dy ͢is͝.̕

(XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV! - Page 25 VDtm7iI

(XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV! - Page 25 ZVlN3q8

Taylor Swift will save us all.

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