Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

by ZerebusPrime Wed Nov 12, 2014 3:57 pm

dorktainian wrote:
ZerebusPrime wrote:The Citadel DLC was absolutely crawling with "this can't be real" moments. While that in and of itself isn't direct evidence of ongoing indoctrination on its own, the implications are still unsettling.

In a time of war, you pull up and take a vacation on the Citadel. Not only do you take a vacation, you find out you've been cloned, you get shot at, your ship gets stolen, you hunt down and kill your clone, then you all go back to your apartment and have a jolly good party.

In the middle of the war to end all wars.

Meantime you can go shooting reapers in the armax arena... oh and don't forget awakened collectors.

Seems legit.

Exactly. I cut my post short so I could go dig up the link to the thread we already have on the topic.
https://indoctrinationtheory.forumotion.co.uk/t300-i-am-so-confused-about-all-of-this-major-ending-foreshadowing-in-citadel-dlc

Anyway, when Joker telegraphs an entire DLC with "these people have no clue", something's up.

by smash016 Wed Nov 12, 2014 4:35 pm

windsurfing wrote:A simple case of looking for what one wants to see?

IT or Information Technology is industry standard reference for anything to do with Computing and the technologies associated with it. Tech support is only one aspect of an IT dept in any company. "Support" being the operating word here. IT depts are primarily in charge of pushing for new technologies that increase productivity of the company. They do everything from recommendations, approvals to installation and maintenance (Support). Many IT depts even develop their own home grown software-hardware solutions because no one else has it in the market ready made for them. All part of working in the IT industry.

Games industry works just like any other IT industry in general. The software development processes are all part of any IT company. Games are software put to use for a certain purpose, entertainment. If you work for Bioware or any studio it is just part of daily work routine to use industry terms and similar jargon. Any reference to IT is not automatically about IndocTheory just because it is from Bioware.

Armax Arsenal is a company that wants to provide entertainment services on the citadel, no real hidden meaning there if they have a dedicated IT dept for their needs. The danger for any theory is when we start taking totally unconnected things out of context just to fit it in with the theory.

TBH Citadel didn't have any tangible 'I.T' themes unlike Levi or maybe even omega. It was just over the top fan service with an outplace short story line about the clone. Fun? sure, I.T? Nah.

I am interested in the so called major I.T references that happened in Citadel DLC because I never felt them, unlike Leviathan DLC.

I think everybody here knows that IT has another, real-life meaning, too, or that "games are software put to use for a certain purpose."

Could it be they just meant it in the mundane sense of the word? Certainly.

Is the other meaning nevertheless something worthwhile to mention in this specific thread? Absolutely.

Maybe both, as in a play on words? Also possible.

Don't take this personally, but I find it funny how when someone is speculating here, others often see the need to inform them of the completely obvious. As if the slightest unconventional thought means someone isn't simultaneously aware of the simplest truths.

by **DoomsdayDevice** Wed Nov 12, 2014 8:07 pm

I do agree, although I'm probably guilty of the same thing sometimes.

by **DoomsdayDevice** Wed Nov 12, 2014 8:46 pm

Garrus: "One man's decorative glass wall fixture is another man's explosive glass wall fixture. (...)"
Zaeed: "Weaponized wall fixtures, Shepard...."

"...wave of the future in home defence."

(XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV! - Page 32 WaveOfTheFutureInHomeDefense_zps3a04f2d4

(XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV! - Page 32 WaveOfTheFutureInHomeDefense_zps3a04f2d4

by OneWithTheAssassins Wed Nov 12, 2014 9:57 pm

Seriously, I doubt they would add so much hints and references to IT and the destroy ending in the final DLC unless they were planning on doing something about in the future.

by **DoomsdayDevice** Wed Nov 12, 2014 11:42 pm

Or take the claw game...

*pick blue ball*

*get credits back*

"YOU ARE A WINNER!"

*pick green ball*

*lose credits*

"YOU ARE A WINNER!"

(Not to mentio picking the red ball wins you credits, and instead of blue and green's consolation prizes (music tracks, Volus plushy), red wins you an actual prize: weapon mod!)

by Guest Thu Nov 13, 2014 3:12 am

It actually goes like this.

Orange - A weapon mod, otherwise credits x2 (1000)
Purple - A volus plushie, otherwise credits x1.5 (750)
Blue - An apartment track, otherwise credits X1 (500)
Green - An apartment track, otherwise credits x0.5 (250)

"You are a winner!" Hmm, I don't feel like I won much from Green...

At least in Blue I got my money back...

by ZerebusPrime Thu Nov 13, 2014 4:08 am

But getting your credits back changes nothing.

by **DoomsdayDevice** Thu Nov 13, 2014 4:52 am

Close enough. I forgot the Volus plushy was purple/pink.

by Guest Thu Nov 13, 2014 5:55 am

ZerebusPrime wrote:But getting your credits back changes nothing.

But.. but.. I got some cool music.

*does Shepard dance*

by Terramine Thu Nov 13, 2014 10:08 am

SwobyJ wrote:It actually goes like this.

Orange - A weapon mod, otherwise credits x2 (1000)
Purple - A volus plushie, otherwise credits x1.5 (750)
Blue - An apartment track, otherwise credits X1 (500)
Green - An apartment track, otherwise credits x0.5 (250)

"You are a winner!" Hmm, I don't feel like I won much from Green...

At least in Blue I got my money back...

It should be noted that because you earn an apartment track with blue and green, it's almost as if it's directing you to said apartment to listen to said tracks... and whats one of the tracks you might hear while you're flipping through?... BAAAAAD CHOICES, SO MANY BAAAAAD CHOICES

by Rifneno Thu Nov 13, 2014 12:15 pm

DoomsdayDevice wrote:
ElSuperGecko wrote:Ah, Citadel. Fun times.

Unusual Scores

From: AAA Information Technology Dept.

Commander Shepard,

Here in the arena IT department, we are attempting to isolate a bug in the simulator. The bug causes unusual scores to show up, probably due to a memory leak. We are looking for a competitor who can reliably rack up high scores to serve as a paid consultant for the duration of our tests. We think you would make an excellent baseline!

If you are interested, the aspect that needs testing most is a layout with memory-intensive creatures like the super elite level opponents. Selecting those enemies should help us isolate the leak.

We look forward to working with you.

Virginia Ruojian
Principal Systems Administrator
Armax Arsenal Arena

I'm sure Bioware were fully aware of the double meaning of the phrase IT when it comes to Mass Effect when they put the Citadel DLC together. They could have easily used a phrase like Tech Support or Simulation Control, but no, they chose to use IT to send messages to Shepard.

It's not just the IT mention. It's the whole thing that seems to have a double meaning. Just the way it's written.

Super elite level opponents which are 'memory intensive' creatures. Haha.

A bug in the simulator that causes 'unusual scores' to show up, due to a 'memory leak'.

I remember being the one to find that and being astonished that it wasn't already a huge thing.

The "IT team" saves Shepard from a murderous virtual reality. I mean, holy shit, how much clearer can a metaphor be?

by **DoomsdayDevice** Thu Nov 13, 2014 3:42 pm

Yeah, that was a good find, Rif. I think you were the first to find out because most people hadn't spent too much time in that simulator. IIRC it only happens after you've unlocked everything in the simulator.

by demersel Thu Nov 13, 2014 4:50 pm

The bit about one man's decorative glass wall fixture being another man's explosive glass wall fixture might be a pun and a reference to Checkov's Gun.

And the bit about the wall fixture in question being a glass one, could be a reference for it being connected with the Fourth Wall

by smash016 Thu Nov 13, 2014 5:12 pm

The Fatal Error scenario is cleverly done. It looks like your graphics card is dying.

Iirc, you get an e-mail telling you the arena is built on a Prothean burial ground, as an explanation for the errors in the simulator. And then during the Fatal Error scenario, you can see plants like those on Ilos growing on the floor, looking like a graphical artifact.

by **DoomsdayDevice** Thu Nov 13, 2014 5:22 pm

demersel wrote:The bit about one man's decorative glass wall fixture being another man's explosive glass wall fixture might be a pun and a reference to Checkov's Gun.

Can you clarify? I'm not seeing the connection...

by demersel Thu Nov 13, 2014 5:34 pm

DoomsdayDevice wrote:

Can you clarify? I'm not seeing the connection...

Well that would be because initially the whole concept and what it intails grew out of an argument about the contents of the play with a pretty specific example given, and the example was in cencern of a decorative wall fixture - a gun that was mounted on the wall for the decorations. And the argument was, that if you're gonna put a gun on your wall as a decoration - that it needs to be used further in the plot like somebody getting shot from it at some point - (that it should be an explosive glass wall fixture, in having some practical utility aimed at your overall goal - in this case protecting one self from an imposter) - and if it doesn't have any such use - you don't need it at all in the first place and it should not be there as a part of your set at all.

"One must never place a loaded rifle on the stage if it isn't going to go off. It's wrong to make promises you don't mean to keep." Chekhov, letter to Aleksandr Semenovich Lazarev (pseudonym of A. S. Gruzinsky), 1 November 1889.[5][6][7] Here the "gun" is a monologue that Chekhov deemed superfluous and unrelated to the rest of the play.

Have you not checked out the link provided? it also has things like Red Herring, Forshadowing and McGuffin under "see also"

by **DoomsdayDevice** Thu Nov 13, 2014 5:36 pm

Okay, yeah, I can see that.

Aside from that, I thought it was an obvious reference to the fact that you shoot a glass tube that explodes, in the destroy ending (which causes a 'wave of the future' that defends home (Earth)). Pretty neat.

by demersel Thu Nov 13, 2014 5:38 pm

My point being - they referenced both Checkov's Gun and Fourth wall in one joke, and combined together they almost spell out the IT - something forshadowed and heavily hinted at that has to do with reaching directly to the player.

by Rifneno Fri Nov 14, 2014 1:19 pm

Here's a fun fact. I hadn't read the newer comics so I didn't know this, but I saw someone mention the other day that Garrus' comic includes the siege on Omega.

Garrus had been in that position for a long time already, he was getting tired and making mistakes. Like the mercs said, "we'll have him soon." Garrus knew it too. He'd analyzed the situation a hundred times over. There was no way out. He was actually calling his father to say goodbye because he wasn't going to make it out this time.

And then he saw it. He couldn't see the face, but he saw someone on the other side of the bridge had an N7 insignia on their armor. And he knew everything was going to be okay. First of all, that's an awesome moment right there. But it also tells us something very important. They keep asking the fans, "What does N7 mean to you?" This scene tells us that "N7 means Shepard" to the writers as much as it does to us. Shepard had been dead for 2 years, and he's hardly the only one to ever earn an N7 rank. But when Garrus saw that, he knew it was his "dead" friend. Against all reason, he knew who it was.

We have hope. More than we know.

by **DoomsdayDevice** Fri Nov 14, 2014 1:42 pm

Awesome. Yeah, if there's one thing they heavily foreshadowed, it's that Shepard is not dead, and will come back.

I'm just suffering from major cognitive dissonance with all this new protagonist talk.

by vlad78 Fri Nov 14, 2014 2:07 pm

Rifneno wrote:Here's a fun fact. I hadn't read the newer comics so I didn't know this, but I saw someone mention the other day that Garrus' comic includes the siege on Omega.

Garrus had been in that position for a long time already, he was getting tired and making mistakes. Like the mercs said, "we'll have him soon." Garrus knew it too. He'd analyzed the situation a hundred times over. There was no way out. He was actually calling his father to say goodbye because he wasn't going to make it out this time.

And then he saw it. He couldn't see the face, but he saw someone on the other side of the bridge had an N7 insignia on their armor. And he knew everything was going to be okay. First of all, that's an awesome moment right there. But it also tells us something very important. They keep asking the fans, "What does N7 mean to you?" This scene tells us that "N7 means Shepard" to the writers as much as it does to us. Shepard had been dead for 2 years, and he's hardly the only one to ever earn an N7 rank. But when Garrus saw that, he knew it was his "dead" friend. Against all reason, he knew who it was.

We have hope. More than we know.

That or he instinctively knows it's Shepard because of a special connection between them.

by smash016 Fri Nov 14, 2014 2:23 pm

Why are people so preoccupied with "What does N7 mean to you?" Isn't it just some promotional slogan kind of thing?

Or in what context did BW say it?

by Rifneno Fri Nov 14, 2014 2:38 pm

smash016 wrote:Why are people so preoccupied with "What does N7 mean to you?" Isn't it just some promotional slogan kind of thing?

Or in what context did BW say it?

Do your own research.

THIS TOPIC IS OVER. I WILL NEVER RESPOND TO IT AGAIN. EXCEPT FOR THE NEXT 93 TIMES. THOSE DON'T COUNT.

by smash016 Fri Nov 14, 2014 4:55 pm

Yeah, it's from this panel on ME4. I'm just sincerely wondering why some people think this question was important. Why shouldn't I be allowed to ask?

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