(XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Edit: And top with my rather pointless post, yay.

dorktainian wrote:When the child says "you can't help me" that should be enough for people to know something is up!

Yeah really, what child says something like that in a situation like that? Then there is the disappearance in a loud vent (since Shepard was initially drawn by the noise) and Anderson not hearing anything.

If that child is real ill go hug a Reaper and become indoctrinated already cause then the world is fucked up enough as it is...and hey maybe they cant comprehend friendship and love and shut down...would be as logical as the current ending.

Even if nothing ever gets confirmed, the presentation of this child alone is -- and always will be -- enough evidence BW was at least planning something, or being very suggestive of something.

Now I can somewhat understand people who believe BW intended IT, but then had to change course for whatever reasons. But simply denying there's evidence for IT... the kid alone refutes that.

ITers should play DAI and talk to Solas. Gotta go now, making burritos!

SwobyJ wrote:ITers should play DAI and talk to Solas. Gotta go now, making burritos!

not out here yet... bring on tomorrow.

DSharrah wrote:Here's an interesting thought that I hadn't considered...what if the child is both real and not real...

What if the initial image of the child playing on the roof is real...but that roof is blasted in the inital attack...the child is killed at this point...Shep is knocked semi-unconscious and the seeds for indoctrinated planted, taking advantage of the memory that is "closest to the surface" - the Reaper's use the child's image to influence Shep and try to force a "sense of loss"...and every vision of the child afterwards is a sign of the indoctrination.

Yeah, that was more or less what I was getting at. The memory "closest to the surface" is the exact same thought I had. Still, I have my doubts if he's even real to begin with.

Raistlin Majere wrote:

dorktainian wrote:When the child says "you can't help me" that should be enough for people to know something is up!

Yeah really, what child says something like that in a situation like that?

Bat riting dawg. DUH. Biowar b retarded. I meen seazely.

IT is BS dawg. Biowar to stoopid 2 cum up wid indoc G.

DoomsdayDevice wrote:

DSharrah wrote:Here's an interesting thought that I hadn't considered...what if the child is both real and not real...

What if the initial image of the child playing on the roof is real...but that roof is blasted in the inital attack...the child is killed at this point...Shep is knocked semi-unconscious and the seeds for indoctrinated planted, taking advantage of the memory that is "closest to the surface" - the Reaper's use the child's image to influence Shep and try to force a "sense of loss"...and every vision of the child afterwards is a sign of the indoctrination.

Yeah, that was more or less what I was getting at. The memory "closest to the surface" is the exact same thought I had. Still, I have my doubts if he's even real to begin with.

This.

He distracts shepard. Do we even know how long shepderp has been watching him play? Days? Weeks?

Also.. How does the kid know everyones dying? Nothing has really happened yet apart from the reapers land and start reaping.

Bloody Starjar.

Pretty sure that Shepard is having hallucinations through the entirety of ME3, althought I do think most of ME3 happened... Most. But yeah, Shepard is going full cray cray. He's just not telling anyone about it, well... He did very passively tell Garrus about the Vent Boy, but didn't tell him-

"Oh yeah, well some weird shit happened on Earth bro, so like there was this kid in a vent, but before he was in the vent he ran into a building that got hit by a Sovereign class reapers beam... But you know Garrus, seems legit that he'd be alive don't ya think? Anyways, so this kid was telling me I couldn't help him, then he like literally disappeared when I looked the other way. Also there was like strange noises coming from the Vent that sounded like.. Well like Growls bro. But yeah, that's what happened to me on Earth Garrus. So what's Palavan been like??"


I mean... Shepard knows he's losing it. He's just not telling anyone. And that is.... A mistake. Or a plant, I can't really decide which.

I do feel like Shepard IS canonically aware of his/her indoctrination, I wouldn't have oily shadows in my dreams and not know.

playing through DA3 and my god if I see another green beam i'll kick the cat.

I hear DA3 is decent, but I'm holding the wallet from EA and their subsidiaries for as long as possible, but..... I might "acquire" it other ways soon.... Buwhahahaha.

Terramine wrote:I do feel like Shepard IS canonically aware of his/her indoctrination, I wouldn't have oily shadows in my dreams and not know.

I dunno. He does wake up with that datapad in his hand and nothing is done. He looks out of his cabin window on more than one occasion - almost as if he is expecting to see something not quite right - but again he remains silent. He is evasive in regards to the first dream when liar confronts him. He knows the crucible is a massive longshot and probable waste of resources but still encourages everyone to throw as many resources at it as they can in the hope it's going to work, without actually knowing what the fk it does.

We all can see the crudible is not legit, but shep is oblivious. Just like all the other brainwashed numpties.

Saren conducted research on Indoctrination, probably because he feared it might affect him yet did not realize it had affected him until Shepard called him out on it. This seems to be the general rule of Indoctrination and indeed part of what makes it so damn terrifying. You don't realize something is wrong even if you know what to look for (Saren, TIM), only when someone connects the dots for you does realization strike. 

I always imagined that Indoctrination in this way might work as a kind of rationalization, a part of your mind telling you it is all fine. Those things you are seeing is just because you are tired / worked to hard, not a sign of indoctrination, because obviously YOU are not affected, after all you know what it is, you have taken your precautions, the voices are just a sign of how tired you are. 

The difference here is that we the player is (at least for us here) not Indoctrinated, so we lack that voice of rationalization and can see and reflect on the things Shepard sees without that little voice at the back of our head trying to rationalize it as something else. 

Off course that is just my take on it.

TurianRebel212 wrote:I hear DA3 is decent, but I'm holding the wallet from EA and their subsidiaries for as long as possible, but..... I might "acquire" it other ways soon.... Buwhahahaha.

I'm holding out until patches (especially to improve PC UI, though it isn't essential for me) and/or price drop, probably.

Or I get it as a gift next month :)

Definitely getting it though.

By the Way... DA3 is connected to Mass Effect and the MEU is connect to the DAU-




LOL

Holy crap! SEE! The moon in Origins and the Klendagon Rift! I KNEW it! I pointed this out MONTHS ago.

CSSteele wrote:Holy crap! SEE! The moon in Origins and the Klendagon Rift! I KNEW it! I pointed this out MONTHS ago.

That's Mars.

dorktainian wrote:
This.

He distracts shepard.  Do we even know how long shepderp has been watching him play?  Days?  Weeks?

Also.. How does the kid know everyones dying?  Nothing has really happened yet apart from the reapers land and start reaping.  

Bloody Starjar.

He was never real, but... Really? You think the fact he knows those deathlasers aren't just a pretty light show is a sign of this?

TurianRebel212 wrote:Pretty sure that Shepard is having hallucinations through the entirety of ME3, althought I do think most of ME3 happened... Most. But yeah, Shepard is going full cray cray. He's just not telling anyone about it, well... He did very passively tell Garrus about the Vent Boy, but didn't tell him-

"Oh yeah, well some weird shit happened on Earth bro, so like there was this kid in a vent, but before he was in the vent he ran into a building that got hit by a Sovereign class reapers beam... But you know Garrus, seems legit that he'd be alive don't ya think? Anyways, so this kid was telling me I couldn't help him, then he like literally disappeared when I looked the other way. Also there was like strange noises coming from the Vent that sounded like.. Well like Growls bro. But yeah, that's what happened to me on Earth Garrus. So what's Palavan been like??"


I mean... Shepard knows he's losing it. He's just not telling anyone. And that is.... A mistake. Or a plant, I can't really decide which.

Do keep in mind that they make some things more obvious so that the player picks up on them. I don't think Shepard is aware he's losing it. If he is, not telling anyone is the absolute worst course of action possible. People close to him need to be aware that he has to be watched, and if necessary, put down.

Terramine wrote:I do feel like Shepard IS canonically aware of his/her indoctrination, I wouldn't have oily shadows in my dreams and not know.

Again, more obvious for the viewer to pick it up. Also, do you think Shepard so distinctly remembers the rachni queen saying "songs the color of oily shadows" one time three years ago? I don't. We have the benefit of being able to see any point of the series in perfect clarity. This is a luxury Shepard does not have.

dorktainian wrote:playing through DA3 and my god if I see another green beam i'll kick the cat.

Lime green = teh evil is not a thing that begun with Mass Effect. It's an age old visual cue.

Besides, if we're going by the red blue green, The Elder One has changed a lot of the black in his appearance to red since we last saw him. It's not like red is getting represented well. Here's an idea: primary colors are common and we shouldn't read too much into their appearance in Not-Mass-Effect.

TurianRebel212 wrote:By the Way... DA3 is connected to Mass Effect and the MEU is connect to the DAU-




LOL

CSSteele wrote:Holy crap! SEE! The moon in Origins and the Klendagon Rift! I KNEW it! I pointed this out MONTHS ago.

pretty much



also.. interesting read regarding games and cinema for anyone who is interested

http://www.denofgeek.com/games/dragon-age-origins/32946/dragon-age-characters-and-the-rise-of-cinematic-gaming

Was "That's Mars" too subtle?

That is the planet Mars. It is close to Earth. It is a real planet. It exists. In real life. You'll probably find pictures of it in tons of different games and stuff. Because it's Mars. The only alien planet close enough for us to have good pictures of it.

Yup, the "Klendagon Rift" is actually the Valles Marineris.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valles_Marineris

Restrider wrote:MAAAARS!!!

Wow suddenly you appear Restrider. Ninja l33t moves.

Mars. Where the crucible plans are found.

It's intriguing to see Mars is where it call began in terms of jump starting Humanity a few hundred years in terms of technology, Eezoo and everything else that followed.

It is also the place where the supposed anti-reaper doomsday weapons development data was stored.

Coming full circle? Maybe, then again maybe not.

There is a good possibility the so called crucible is nothing more than a Reaper creation designed to fool civilizations into spending vast amounts of resources while they reduce the attacks on actual Reaper forces when they come to the home worlds to reap. A sound strategy to divert crucial forces, energy and other resources effectively numbing the whole galaxy and there by preventing it from forming a more potent threat as one united group fighting to the common goal.

How did the data end up in Mars? Javik talks about indoctrinated traitors among Prothean higher ranks during the end days. The data stores could have been planted deliberately by such agents under Reaper direction. There could be more of such data caches elsewhere scattered throughout the galaxy. Provided all of this speculation on my part is true of course.

If any of this is true, knowing the reapers, even if for whatever reasons they have been defeated or reduced in numbers after the events of ME3, they will have some sort of redundancy in place to get back in force and retaliate. Even more so if this new game is all about "exploration" "new threats" or the feeling of being threatened in the vastness of space while you visit fascinating new worlds, it could be that you the new protagonist slowly realizes the existence of these redundancies in place through out the known and unknown parts of the galaxy.