(XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

100% sure that whatever the case is with Leviathan, we're not getting the whole truth from them (or 'them', whatever).

But that's really the case with ME3 as a whole. The script itself lampshades several times how we're not getting the 'full story', just 'enough for now'. This is different from ME1's relatively contained story, and ME2's story that overtly left things open. ME3 goes "Yeah its totallllyy a conclusion guys! A big war! Grand finale! Now... don't look over here... or over here... or up there... or down there.. follow this direct line... yes.... fall down that pit and never question."

So far, I don't think we're done with Leviathans, Reapers, Shepard, etc etc etc. We may be moving beyond them, in terms of substantial focus. They may be more of an optional layer of content. But I don't think we're done. We got the Levi's shifty eyes to address. Whether that means the next game will have Levis or Reapers or whatever - I dunno - but those eyes were shifty for a reason and we've seen no story that actually explains why those eyes were shifty :)

Completely agree with you both.

Leviathan is content with how the Reapers go about their business, even though it lost control over them. The important thing is they're still doing what they were made for. In front of Shepard it just doesn't want to incriminate itself all too much, hence the shifty eyes. Sacrifices one Reaper so it looks like it's on our side.

The Reapers perceive you as a threat. And I must understand why. [...] There was no mistake, it still serves its purpose. [...] The cycle will continue. [...] The Reapers will harvest the rest.

And "There is no war, only the Harvest" always reminds me of "Finish your war, we will be waiting" (Reaper on Rannoch).

Not sure why Leviathan would have anything to fear from Shepard, though. Might as well speak freely.


Those cave paintings seem to depict asari, btw. I dunno, if the Reapers reap all life, somebody else must sow it, right...?

The Prothean VI on Thessia explains how every cycle has the same patterns of evolution and development, iirc implying it's not the Reapers' work.

Lots of speculation, I know.

Brilliant

You reap what you sow....

The Leviathan are a plant.

Harbinger is running this whole thing. He's top dog, always was, always has been.

But even derpy Harbinger needs something..... A Catalyst.


Shepard is the catalyst. Harbinger must kill and recover the body AKA the "essence" or indoctrinate the Catalyst. He tried to kill him and get Shep's body, lots of times. He tried to trap him over and over and over again throughout the entirety of ME2. The Shadow Broker was an agent of Harbinger and the collectors. Without Liara's intervention it would have been game over then. So... Cerberus came in, But...... Because Harbinger is a trillion year old hyper intelligent machine he also saw that one coming..........

So Harby put in his other plant into play.

Jack Harper. AKA The Illusive Man.

By controlling the head of Cerberus, Harbinger also controlled Cerberus and thus the Lazarus Project, The creation of the SR2 and to a degree. Shepard himself. Horizon.... Trap. Shepard was suppose to be caught then..... Collector Ship.... TRAP. Shepard was suppose to be caught then........ Derelict Reaper.... Um.... yeah, that was a trap too.


The suicide mission... The ultimate trap and literally..... A SUICIDE MISSION, lol.

But..... Shepard just kept winning. All he does is win, lol. Because Shepard's just so damn good and tough, Shepard totally turned that plan on it's head, lol. He fucked over Harbinger.... Again.


However, the seeds of indoctrination were already planted- with the reaper tech used in Lazarus(I've nearly proven this one to a 100 percent certainty with the lore of the series), the exposure to more reaper artifacts and husks(husks emit reaper signals). So.... it was just a matter of time before Shepard would succumb to indoctrination and.....

Choose a path which we desire


The paths are open.... You must choose


Yeah.

For all we know the Leviathans are directing the Reapers in a hands-off way, only making their presence known for direct inspection of specimens in the galactic laboratory as the cycle iterates. In that train of thought, Shepard is lured to planet Despoina so that he can be scanned/tested thoroughly before then being let back into the wild. Maybe they wanted to scan his thought patterns while he was actively resisting indoctrination. Who knows?

Funny how the Leviathan DLC raises more questions than it answers.

ZerebusPrime wrote:For all we know the Leviathans are directing the Reapers in a hands-off way, only making their presence known for direct inspection of specimens in the galactic laboratory as the cycle iterates.  In that train of thought, Shepard is lured to planet Despoina so that he can be scanned/tested thoroughly before then being let back into the wild.  Maybe they wanted to scan his thought patterns while he was actively resisting indoctrination.  Who knows?

The only way I can see the leviathans being real is if the next game is all about them. Because otherwise, the real villain behind the curtain... is in a DLC and we never see anything come of that? It being in a DLC isn't so much the problem, as it has to be followed up on and be central to the future story. The villains are central to the story... hence REAPERS.

But that being said, what you're saying makes a shit ton more sense anyways. In fact, wasn't the very doctor that informed Hacket and thus in turn Shepard... clearly already able to be influenced by Leviathan? That makes them suspect.

I would point out that DA:I just set the precedent of the main villain being from a DLC from the previous game.

And that DLC being made canonical regardless of whether or not it was played.

Hurray Hawke.

Hey Guys and girls....I just wanted to wish you all a Happy New Year!!

Bring in 2015 with a bang!!

Bring it on! Wake up Shepard.

Happy New Years fellow IT'ers.


Now, think on this one.

In a few weeks it will have been FIVE Years since the glorious Mass Effect 2 was released.... My God. 5 years since ME2. Wow. Time flies.

Crazy.

Anyway's, happy New Years day y'all.

Cheers.

It's been almost 3 years since ME3 released, right?

Happy New Year!

DoomsdayDevice wrote:It's been almost 3 years since ME3 released, right?

Just two months, five days until the three year anniversary. Hopefully they'll find some significance in the third anniversary of the third game and release some details about the fourth. ^^

Yeah, call me if they have something else to show besides useless concept-art.

don't hold your breath for info on ME4 guys. I suspect we'll hear about a remaster (PS4 + XB1) well before we hear owt about ME4.

dorktainian wrote:don't hold your breath for info on ME4 guys.  I suspect we'll hear about a remaster (PS4 + XB1) well before we hear owt about ME4.

Yeah, quite possible that 2015 is all 'HEY REMASTER!... and here's some still-small bits of info about ME4.' (to most consumers' collective yawn) and it is 2016 that is the most about Mass Effect 4, and its marketing drive.

I'm beyond sick of not knowing anything. They said it's still years away. It's been almost three years since ME3 came out. I mean FCS.

I'm sick of the whole damn thing. I'm sick of waiting. Sick of not knowing. Hell, I'm even sick of speculating at this point.

It might be 2 or 3 more years until we finally find out Bioware is doing some stupid sidequel spin-off that nobody's been waiting for.

They really wrote themselves into a corner with the whole Shepard mystery, and now they're probably too chicken shit to go through with it.

We'll probably get a stupid game that'll dance all around the hot issues and satisfy no one who wants real answers.

Sorry, new year's blues, I guess.

DoomsdayDevice wrote:It might be 2 or 3 more years until we finally find out Bioware is doing some stupid sidequel spin-off that nobody's been waiting for.

Something to raise your spirits, perhaps.

If it's going to be a stupid fresh-new-start kind of game, that nobody's waiting for, they have no reason to be coy. They can just tell us about the game's story and characters like they would for any new game in a new IP. At least over the course of 2015, they will start sharing *something*.

If they keep shutting up, however, just like they mostly did after ME3's release, we know they still have something to hide, something they don't want to spoil.

ME4 needs to be released by mid 2016. I mean, if it's not released by then...... .I just don't see the point really. Dragons Age 3 is alright, it's nothing special really, the main quest is short and the characters are BORING for the most part. I see it winning many GOTY awards but that just speaks to how lackluster 2014 really was, with the exception of Divinity Original Sin (Which is better than DA3 BTW), and Dark Souls 2 there were not really any great games released in 2014. One of the slimmest years in gaming I can remember actually.

The game industry needs Mass Effect 4, big time. Mass Effect drove the last gen in terms of single player experiences, in really did. Red Dead Redemption, Bioshock, Last of Us and Mass Effect. Those were the big highly acclaimed single player experiences of last gen.

And the game industry needs a win. AAA games really took a nose dive this year. Big time. Terrible releases- Destiny, HALO, Assassins Creed, CoD and so on. 2014 was the year of shit ass releases to be honest, many of which were broken.

The industry, let alone EA and BioWare, need a great Mass Effect game.

I think last gen we really got spoiled too be honest. We got really use to playing AMAZING games year after year, month after month. But 2014 has been a sort of humbling experience.

ME4 has to come and come soon. It's a very important series to gaming, one of the most important.

I suspect that because EA like money, we'll see the next mass effect game late this year. (well after a remaster that is) I have a rather sneaky feeling they are a lot further on than we think. not that that is a good thing tho.

dragon age ain't that bad. nice to pick up and lose a few hours on - if you want repetitive gameplay that is.

dorktainian wrote:I suspect that because EA like money, we'll see the next mass effect game late this year.  (well after a remaster that is) I have a rather sneaky feeling they are a lot further on than we think.  not that that is a good thing tho.

dragon age ain't that bad.  nice to pick up and lose a few hours on - if you want repetitive gameplay that is.  

Its really either way for me.

Later 2015 - Sure.
Early 2016 - Sure.
Mid 2016 - Maybe? Don't remember the last time a Bioware game did this.
Late 2016 - Maybe, it could happen, but I don't like to think about it.
2017 - PFFFFFTTT. I see this prospect as ridiculous, really. Though I guess some people think it'll happen.

Waiting another 1-2 years is... borderline acceptable to my patience :P. I'm interested enough in Dragon Age to do more than 1-2 playthroughs if I feel like it later, and get the DLC, and play other games. Would I love to see it late 2015 and regard it as possible? Sure, I do.

2015 release?

Hah, no chance.

All we have so far is concept art, apparently it's still in pre-alpha.

I'd love to be wrong, but no. Don't count on a 2015 release.

not counting.... just saying that EA likes money - so I would imagine they'll be pushing like hell for a release. have they got any other 'flagship' titles due for a release in 2015?

and.... it has been like 3 years.

unless they fooked up in development and went back to square one.... which is possible (so long casey.... shut the door on your way out)