(XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

So.. you contend Liara is qualified because she served with Shepard, who met and 'assraped' reapers (your words).
I counter with a (barely) humorous aside pointing to Shepard's relatively poor record in that regard.
and your response?
'Strawman Fallacy'

I address and counter your point directly - you contend that I am addressing a made up argument.

I give up.
Maybe you're going through ADHD, or Asperger's, or Bi-Polar condition.
Maybe you blackout after typing and completely forget your arguments - which would explain how you can manage to not make a single conclusive point over a 1000 word post.
In your own words again, maybe you're just a moron.
Or a troll.

At this point I feel I must revert to where I was last month, r.e. Refuse and 'Themes':

Nobody Cares

Valsamon wrote:So.. you contend Liara is qualified because she served with Shepard, who met and 'assraped' reapers (your words).

Right, exactly. He has. You pointing to this 1 instance, at the very end of the trilogy, involving the single most powerful reaper regardless of whether or not you believe he is the original? This is what I'm talking about. It's a strawman because I never claimed Shepard was invincible, Shepard doesn't need to be to prove my point. My point was Shepard is a threat to the Reapers from an iconic standpoint because the Reaper's most powerful weapon is subversion and making themselves seem all-mighty. For shepard to win against even a single reaper, would alone be enough to justify my point. Not to mention Liara being inspired by Shepard, isn't the fucking main focus of my argument. There's still the fact that she is hundreds of years old with hundreds of years of expertise in studying the protheans and their downfall. If ANYONE is an expert on why the protheans failed, and how we can do better than them, it is her. You literally ignored everything else in my post and shoehorned it about this 1 thing. Mocking this 1 point like a fucking clown, as if it fucking means jack shit.

And in context, what I said makes perfect sense. Usually the Commander of a group makes the biggest contributions. But their squad mates also usually end up whipping out SOMETHING to fight the menacing opposition. It's in like every work of fiction ever that has a group of friends or a squad or whatever bullshit. Even the retarded kid in the back ends up pulling something out of his sleeve against the all might space cthulhus.

Valsamon wrote:I counter with a (barely) humorous aside pointing to Shepard's relatively poor record in that regard.

LMAO, reletively poor record? Pointing to the 1 failure, out of all other successes, is what people do in politics and religion to slander a great person's image. This alone proves you have not a fucking clue how refutation works, because you haven't refuted jack shit.

Valsamon wrote:I address and counter your point directly - you contend that I am addressing a made up argument.

Wrong, you did not counter jack shit. That's not how refutation works, go back to school. It's a Strawman Fallacy because in your mind my argument is based on extremes, when it's not? That's not how reality works dipshit.

Valsamon wrote:I give up. Maybe you're going through ADHD, or Asperger's, or Bi-Polar condition. Maybe you blackout after typing and completely forget your arguments - which would explain how you can manage to not make a single conclusive point over a 1000 word post.
In your own words again, maybe you're just a moron.

It's fun whipping out whatever slanderous nonsense you can because you aint got anything better. Doot doot motherfucker.

Valsamon wrote:At this point I feel I must revert to where I was last month, r.e. Refuse and 'Themes':

Nobody Cares

Nobody cares about discussion on IT at all anymore, it aint got jack shit to do with refuse. It's all just been talked about so people just aren't that interested in engaging even when something new is brought to the table. Because it's not about that anymore with Andromeda coming out.

dorktainian wrote:
ah an insult.   gotta love em.

Nice work.  Maybe you should try to make friends with moving traffic while wearing a fucking blindfold you utter knobhead no-mark.  

As far as Ideas...  Liara's messages being found?  Inevitable?  Really?

Right because I'm trying to leave a mark here in a forum for theorizing about fiction? I have friends and loved ones, when people show me respect I show them respect and this whole forum is disrespectful back and fourth, left and right. The only real exceptions I've seen being people like Byne, Restrider, Banshee or ZerebusPrime.

Anyways I would say so yeah. Considering she hid them all over the galaxy with foreknowledge of the prothean's failure and success to hide shit from the Reapers. I personally think, knowing the character and as a squadmate of Shep, this is her 1 real contribution in the fight against the Reapers. She's been there to know about the cycles, to know about the prothean cycle, etc. As a Mage/Seer she is the person who would be the closest to knowing or understanding the Reapers' weakness even if she isn't entirely confident in her own abilities.

Terramine wrote:

dorktainian wrote:
ah an insult.   gotta love em.

Nice work.  Maybe you should try to make friends with moving traffic while wearing a fucking blindfold you utter knobhead no-mark.  

As far as Ideas...  Liara's messages being found?  Inevitable?  Really?

Right because I'm trying to leave a mark here in a forum for theorizing about fiction? I have friends and loved ones, when people show me respect I show them respect and this whole forum is disrespectful back and fourth, left and right. The only real exceptions I've seen being people like Byne, Restrider, Banshee or ZerebusPrime.

Anyways I would say so yeah. Considering she hid them all over the galaxy with foreknowledge of the prothean's failure and success to hide shit from the Reapers. I personally think, knowing the character and as a squadmate of Shep, this is her 1 real contribution in the fight against the Reapers. She's been there to know about the cycles, to know about the prothean cycle, etc. As a Mage/Seer she is the person who would be the closest to knowing or understanding the Reapers' weakness even if she isn't entirely confident in her own abilities.

just a polite comment. those cutscenes are not real ffs..... They cannot possibly be real. 3 endings in a singular narrative taking place in a singular timeframe cannot ever be real if you are to continue the narratve in a future game. The galaxy must be in a singular state of being. Otherwise you are getting into multiverse theory and I don't think Bioware is clever enough for that.....yet.

maybe the only person with the actual knowledge of the protheans failure who is actually relevant to the story either shot the tube or jumped the shark...all thanks to good old indoctrination? In fact i'll go as far as to say I wouldn't trust Liara. I wouldn't trust her at all, and that feeling goes right back to mass effect 1.

dorktainian wrote:just a polite comment.   those cutscenes are not real ffs..... They cannot possibly be real.  3 endings in a singular narrative taking place in a singular timeframe cannot ever be real if you are to continue the narratve in a future game.  The galaxy must be in a singular state of being.  Otherwise you are getting into multiverse theory and I don't think Bioware is clever enough for that.....yet.

maybe the only person with the actual knowledge of the protheans failure who is actually relevant to the story either shot the tube or jumped the shark...all thanks to good old indoctrination?  In fact i'll go as far as to say I wouldn't trust Liara.  I wouldn't trust her at all, and that feeling goes right back to mass effect 1.

I know you don't trust her. Feelings don't mean shit? Just because she sets off your "suspicious" gut feeling. Doesn't mean it's because she actually is bad. Shadiness is shadiness, the good guys have to employ the same tactics as the bad guys in order to keep up. In other words, of course Liara is shrouded in secrecy and deception. The whole point to the Shadowbroker, to me personally, is that it could be ANYONE. You could put a 10 year old girl scout in that chair, and it would still make sense.

But it's about who is sitting in that shady chair. Is it, in fact a 10 year old girl scout? Or is it Mr Evil? That's the only thing that matters.

Most good guys are shady too. Otherwise, I don't trust anyone who presents themselves as an ideal cookie cutter shmoe.

A couple indoc-y tracks for y'all.

Small sample size maybe, and the guy playing it was only half following the story the whole time.
Still .... if anyone ever needs more proof that Twitch chat is literal cancer:

And "Join" is the most puke colored. Appropriate.

It's funny how you can literally call synthesis "join the reapers" and people will just, go with it. Just join em, go ahead. Get on over there and sit on harbys lap as he gives you presents.

Terramine wrote:It's funny how you can literally call synthesis "join the reapers" and people will just, go with it. Just join em, go ahead. Get on over there and sit on harbys lap as he gives you presents.

I'm not even surprised.  Control was originally called "become a Reaper" and people went with it.  There's even some relics of it, such as in the official guide where it's still referred to as such.

On an unrelated note, to the fellow who PM'd me a few days ago and joined chat briefly while I was unfortunately tabbed out, incoming PM's are switched off in your profile.  I tried to reply but I can't send it.

I bet at least 70% of the people who voted on that poll were the people who came in on the third game....

WeAreHarbinger wrote:I bet at least 70% of the people who voted on that poll were the people who came in on the third game....

I bet at least 70% of the people who voted on that poll were the people who support Trump...

Rifneno wrote:

WeAreHarbinger wrote:I bet at least 70% of the people who voted on that poll were the people who came in on the third game....

I bet at least 70% of the people who voted on that poll were the people who support Trump...

Very Likely

That said I would do the paragon option and blow a hole in my head if i was forced to pick synthesis or control. That is how Refuse should have been.

Master Blaster wrote:

Rifneno wrote:

WeAreHarbinger wrote:I bet at least 70% of the people who voted on that poll were the people who came in on the third game....

I bet at least 70% of the people who voted on that poll were the people who support Trump...

 Very Likely

That said I would do the paragon option and blow a hole in my head if i was forced to pick synthesis or control. That is how Refuse should have been.

Do you even lift cascade?

MB actually has a point. Being given only the choice of Control should have had an out where Shepard realized he was no longer in control of his faculties and could shoot himself dead, Saren style.

Welp. Looks like the Charon Relay has been discovered then.

http://www.space.com/31670-planet-nine-solar-system-discovery.html

So it begins...

While we wait for NASA to confirm that, come help find the Prothean digsite:

http://www.planetfour.org/

Hey guys, long time. Been absorbed by Fallout 4 since it was released, still am.

Sad to see I haven't really missed anything besides IronicParticle pissing all over the place.

So did anyone actually see shephard get shot by harbingers beam? That was rhetorical, no you didn't because the screen fades to white orb before you actually see him get hit. Everywhere I go everyone assumes he got hit by the beam and is so manly he didn't vaporize or thinks shephard is already dead or think harbinger lowered his beam to injure but not kill shephard (which sort of makes the most sense but still seems off). Did anybody notice the mako right next to him as well as another soldier right behind shephard? Well the mako is pretty much what caused shephard to fall over and I believe is what harbinger really shot to make sure shephard stays down then continues to vaporize the soldier. Also what about the interference the beam was emitting? Everyone forgets about it after you see the missile fly around the reaper like a deep. The closer shephard got maybe the more it would affect him, or as he was running down it would eventually get to him no matter how close he was. Whatever but the interference was totally ignored after that.

So did anyone actually see shephard get shot by harbingers beam? That was rhetorical, no you didn't because the screen fades to white orb before you actually see him get hit. Everywhere I go everyone assumes he got hit by the beam and is so manly he didn't vaporize or thinks shephard is already dead or think harbinger lowered his beam to injure but not kill shephard (which sort of makes the most sense but still seems off). Did anybody notice the mako right next to him as well as another soldier right behind shephard? Well the mako is pretty much what caused shephard to fall over and I believe is what harbinger really shot to make sure shephard stays down then continues to vaporize the soldier. Also what about the interference the beam was emitting? Everyone forgets about it after you see the missile fly around the reaper like a derp. The closer shephard got maybe the more it would affect him, or as he was running down it would eventually get to him no matter how close he was. Whatever but the interference was totally ignored after that.

dirksirs45 wrote:So did anyone actually see shephard get shot by harbingers beam? That was rhetorical, no you didn't because the screen fades to white orb before you actually see him get hit. Everywhere I go everyone assumes he got hit by the beam and is so manly he didn't vaporize or thinks shephard is already dead or think harbinger lowered his beam to injure but not kill shephard (which sort of makes the most sense but still seems off). Did anybody notice the mako right next to him as well as another soldier right behind shephard? Well the mako is pretty much what caused shephard to fall over and I believe is what harbinger really shot to make sure shephard stays down then continues to vaporize the soldier. Also what about the interference the beam was emitting? Everyone forgets about it after you see the missile fly around the reaper like a deep. The closer shephard got maybe the more it would affect him, or as he was running down it would eventually get to him no matter how close he was. Whatever but the interference was totally ignored after that.

Shepard.

Yes, he got hit. It's not up for debate. The screen whites out a nanosecond before impact, but the beam was already on its way to hitting Shepard. Even Harbinger can't just call back a particle beam it already fired. Once it's been fired, that's it. Especially inside an atmosphere.

The inference was just automated weapons guidance systems jamming. Hell, we already have that technology in real life. For example, the Boeing EA-18G Growler is an F-18 Super Hornet that's been modified for electronic warfare (i.e. screwing up enemy radar and that sort of thing). The Reapers are, of course, using a more advanced version but the basic concept is the same. I fail to see what this has to do with Shepard or the beam run at all. That technology has no effect at all on an organic. It's just a method of screwing with missile guidance systems.

Does Shep get hit? Yes of course.

What's funny is the change between EC & None EC endings. The pre EC ending to me was a direct shot straight up the ramp, post EC it's more of a side swipe (on purpose).
Just look at what that destroyer did to the shuttle when leaving Earth and any smaller class reaper builds to with their weapon.
The big ass Sovereign class (Harbinger) that doesn't miss a shot with anything else on the way down to the ramp misses you on purpose (Post EC).
Maybe i'm biased though because it's at that point i believe the mind fuck begins. But yeah...Shep gets fried either way.

everything that happens after the 'white out' happens in that split second before shep gets hit, right up to the breath scene doesn't it.

only one outcome shows shep survive harbies blast.

No watch the scene again and tell me you didn't actually see the laser hit shephards flesh. We just assumed it did because of how it was presented. Nothing can survive a shot from a reaper so shephard was not hit directly. Harbinger could easily direct it past shephard injuring him with the explosion of the mako next to him. He did the same thing to shephards squadmate to injure them. Plus harbinger didn't want to kill shephard. When I first watched the extended cut part where shephard takes his squadmate to the normandy I was like WTF are you doing shephard! Then harbinger just sits there and watches when he could directly shoot shephard or the normandy which would kill shephard. Plus the transport beam did have an interference which can be signals. Signals coming from reaper tech usually means indoctrination signals or maybe the reapers form of social media idk. Maybe the signal indoctrinated the missiles headed for that reaper defending the beam lol