Hidden messages in the dialogue? (The IT Cypher™)

Reposting the topic I made on BSN, about possible IT-related hints in the dialogue!
(The thread was called: I'm calling it: The darkness will be breached!)

EDIT: OP Updated - Added examples at the end of the post.

At the risk of making a complete fool of myself, I'm going to come out and say this. I realize this will make me look like a complete crackpot conspiracy theorist, but so be it. I just want this to be on record for future reference.

I think I have figured it out. And by "it", I mean the whole Mass Effect 3 puzzle. Because that is what it is, a puzzle. Have I figured out all of it? Absolutely not. I'm still looking for more answers. But I think I've seen enough to be sure of some things.

How did I arrive at this conclusion?

There is a complete dual layer of meaning in the game. From the 'Vigil' theme being subtly hidden in the main menu (just listen with headphones and turn it up) to a multitude of dialogues having a 4th wall breaking message, or being analogies and foreshadowing to other events in the game. I even think I have found an entire outline for the general idea for the ending, and the way Bioware is fooling us with PR. (See examples below)

It's all cleverly hidden, and the key to finding the clues is, if you hear a bit of dialogue that vaguely reminds you of something else, try asking yourself if this could really be referring to another (future) event in the game, Bioware themselves, or even the player(s).

The thing is, all these clues are really consistent with each other and all point towards one thing. Could this be my confirmation bias at work? Absolutely. I must say that I would never have arrived at these conclusions without the people in the IT thread. That does not mean all IT-ers subscribe to my theory, not even by a long shot. I just mean to say that this is not a quest for personal glory, and I couldn't have done it without their finds, even though many of them will not agree with me.

If what I'm going to say turns out to be true, I guarantee you that in retrospect, all the so-called 'bad writing' in Mass Effect 3 will all make sense. If it plays out like I think it will, you'll be laughing at all the humourous little references and obvious hints Bioware managed to sneak in there. It's basically the biggest prank ever pulled in the history of gaming.

I'm not going to defend my views to the bitter end, because knowing BSN, I realize almost nobody will believe me anyway, no matter what I come up with. I'm not trying to prove anything here.

I will give some pointers though. The 'From Ashes' DLC is a wealth of clues, hints and foreshadowing, and in my opinion it is intended to foreshadow the return of Shepard. Like Javik, Shepard will rise from ashes as an avatar of vengeance.

I have always believed the Indoctrination Theory to be largely correct, but I always believed Bioware would leave the 'ending' forever ambiguous. In recents weeks I have found so many clues, that I have completely come around on that view.

So, what am I talking about exactly?

I'll list some things that I am absolutely sure of at this point. Note, all of these points are things I directly derived from in-game information.

1. Our 'victory' is an illusion. No matter what ending you picked.
2. The war is not over.
3. It will continue in Mass Effect 4, which will be a direct sequel, and it will be about Shepard.
4. The Reapers have not been defeated.
5. Bioware is intentionally feeding us misinformation. (Yes, even this is explained in game)
6. As far as Bioware is concerned, controllers and synthesizers have been pacified.
7. As far as Bioware is concerned, the reveal of what actually happens in these endings is not something that should be mourned. Naivety is not a thing that should be rewarded. In short: you fell for it, lol.
8. Indoctrination Theory is largely correct.
9. The destroy option is there, not because the "catalyst" offers it, but because it is the solution that is on Shepard's mind. It's what Shepard thinks the Crucible will do. The "catalyst" can't change that.
10. Choosing destroy is Shepard's struggle, his physical and violent reaction to the attempt to control him.
11. There are not as many Reapers as we think there are. They concentrated the bulk of their forces in the most heavily populated areas of the galaxy and are patrolling the less populated regions to keep up the illusion of a large presence. If we knew they were not with as many as we thought, we could do some serious damage. I do think this means the path to a more conventional victory is open. Forget about the crucible.
12. Why the deception? If players knew they were done for when picking certain endings, they would never pick any of these choices. Bioware wants players to fall for it, only to blow their minds with a reveal later.
13. There will be a battle on Earth, in the city where Earthborn Shepard grew up in. I'm not sure what city that is, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was Rio de Janeiro.

Will Bioware reveal it during this DLC cycle, or do we have to wait until ME4? I don't know.

One thing that could happen, but that I'm not entirely sure about:

- It could be that even though you picked destroy, and you resisted the indoctrination, the Reapers (probably Harbinger) did gain a basic foothold in your mind. So even in destroy, Shepard may end up being partly indoctrinated. This could play out in several ways. Shepard might fight off the influence because he resisted, or the presence could be eradicated with the defeat of Harbinger. But again: this is the one thing I'm not entirely sure about, but it could be.

So go ahead and laugh at the conspiracy theorist, I don't care.

It would be hilarious if, for once, the conspiracy theorists were right all along. If not, shame on me.

We'll see who has the last laugh.


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EXAMPLES

What follows, is a number of quotes from the game. What these quotes have in common is that they seem to have a hidden meaning. In some cases they have a certain 4th-wall-breaking quality, as if directly addressing the player. In other cases they seem like obvious foreshadowing or analogies.

When reading these quotes, try to forget about the in-game context and look for the hidden meaning. I'll be curious to hear if your 4th wall is still standing by the end of this.

Do you have the 'cypher'?

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The end is a trap (an analogy for what happens in London)

From Ashes - Eden Prime - The three datapads:

Resistance Information Update

We've gotten word from our source within Eden Prime's resistance movement that we can expect an attack on our security center between 2200 and 2300 tomorrow night. They're pulling in forces from across the colony--this gives us the perfect chance to destroy their Leadership.
Once the attack is contained, allow Dr. William Cambiata to escape, firing near-miss shots to keep it realistic. He's given us good information, and with luck, the locals will see him as a daring hero and the only man to escape the Cerberus trap. They might even put him in charge!

An analogy for the path to a more conventional victory:

Troop Deployment Update

Local resistance is heavy in the south and west sections of the colony. We've pulled most of our troops from the north neighbourhoods to assist. All remaining troops in the north neighbourhood: continue standard patrol activities to maintain the illusion of a large presence in that area. If the locals knew we were understaffed, they could do some serious damage.

An analogy for players fooled by the endings, Bioware's PR, and the reason for the lies:

Processing Update

We've taken more able-bodied men and women from pacified neighbourhoods. The colonists generally have accepted the story that they have gone to perform tedious but safe manual labor in a Cerberus research camp on the other side of the planet, and when we increased food rations as "payment for the work", most of the complaints died out.
Maintain the story as long as possible. We don't have the manpower to fight the entire colony, and if these families knew they were never going to see their sons and daughters again, there's no way they'd cooperate.

(Players wouldn't pick the indoctrinated endings if they knew what really happened)

Bioware's stance on the reveal:

Javik: Only the foolish mourn the loss of innocence. It is inevitable. The galaxy has never rewarded the naive.

The end is only a test:

Batarian Preacher: Maintain, my brothers and sisters. We have faced adversity and overcome. This is but a test. Remember the pillars of strength that hold the people high. Show the galaxy our resolve. I know that your faith is weak, our government has fallen. But if you hold the pillars of strength in your hearts, please... just don't give up.

(Pillars of Strength = the first two games)

----------

Turian: Listen, honey, please... This is how it has to be. Everyone is going through this.
Asari: I know, and I'm sure you'll be fine, but it's just so damn inconvenient. It's like we're pre-spaceflight all of a sudden.

(Hilarious reference to the relays being destroyed in the original ending)

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Ashley: How do we fight something that can worm its way into your head?
Shepard: I don't know, but we don't have a choice.

(We have to fight indoctrination)

The end isn't real:

James: It's... not right. It looks pretty, calm and peaceful, but it's not right. It's all just an illusion. (...) They'd rather believe in this than face the truth.
Shepard (Paragon): I can hardly believe it myself, like everything back on Earth was some kind of nightmare.
Shepard (Renegade): They're in for a rude awakening.

(Also hinting at a reveal!)

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Joker: What if this--like, everything you're seeing now--is a simulation?
EDI: Shepard, I can confirm that this is the real world.
Joker: Oh, okay, well that'll solve that. Man, good thing we have an unshackled AI around to tell us what reality is.
EDI: Perhaps I missed some salient information.

(Hilarious reference to the "catalyst" telling us what 'reality' is, as well as EDI commenting on missing out on important information)

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Stargazer kid: Did that all really happen?
Stargazer: Yes..., but some of the details have been lost in time.

The "catalyst" is only a Reaper AI:

EDI: You just introduced me as your personal assistance mech.
Joker: Yeah, well, it was the only way to get you inside.
EDI: But you know I am not one. Why deceive others?
Joker: You don't really want to introduce yourself as an AI with Reaper-based code. They would... lynch you.
EDI: That would be an inefficient way to render me nonfunctional.

(Hilarious reference to the "catalyst" acting as if he's only there to assist Shepard, and not introducing himself as a Reaper AI to avoid suspicion - note: this was especially hilarious before EC boldly revealed what the "catalyst" was)

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Joker: Meanwhile, everybody's ignoring the unshackled AI walking around the Presidium.

(Same - this was a hilarious clue intended to figure out what the child was before the EC)

The victory isn't real, the truth will be revealed, the Reapers haven't been beaten:

Javik: The Reapers are cunning in their deception. Allowing life to flourish, century upon century, letting us believe ourselves the masters of the cosmos. Then the truth becomes known. There are monsters in the dark spaces. And we are their prey."

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Garrus: If they're lucky, they grew up thinking the galaxy is basically a decent place.Some rough spots here and there, but for the most part, life makes sense. Now they find out it was all a lie. They wake up to see these things in the dark that just want to destroy everyone they ever cared about. If they survive, there'll be a lot of angry orphans out there looking for answers.

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Indoctrinated Hanar: Your belief in your victory is mistaken.

The war isn't over:

Private Campbell: When this war is over, I hope we find every race that sat back while we bled, and get some payback.
Private Westmoreland: That's a great plan... follow war with more war.

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Garrus: Don't forget to come up for air, there's a lot more war to go.

(Obvious breath scene reference)

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Shepard (to Miranda, FOB): This isn't goodbye. You have to believe we're not done yet.

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Vega (to Shepard, FOB): So I guess this is it, no? One more push... one last fight.
Shepard: Not necessarily our last.

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Javik (to Shepard, FOB): The future is still out there. It is something my people could never say: There will be a tomorrow.
Shepard: Only if we win today.

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Wrex (FOB): Today we win our future!

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Thane: There comes a time when one must rest from war and conflict. It is not your time, but it is mine.

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Samara: I want you to know there's no one else I'd rather see leading us in our last hours.
Shepard: These aren't our last hours. I'm fighting this war to win it.
Samara: (...) We'll both be tested in fire soon enough.

Shepard is alive, it all sounds too good to be true, but it isn't over:

Shepard: Have you heard anything about Earth?
Ashley: We have reports going in all the time on what is going on. Half are wild speculation, and half are probably too optimistic to be true.
Shepard: We have to believe that we can do something.
Ashley: When I thought you were dead, I lost hope. I'm telling you. But when you came back? I was ready to believe anything.

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Dominic Osaba: But what I need is proof! I can't take your word for this. Those assumptions merely leave my son stranded in enemy territory. Bilal may still be alive!

(Reference to the implications of the breath scene taking place in London - that means the Reapers aren't defeated and Shepard is surrounded by enemies, and that there's no ending to the story - AKA the most often heard complaint about the implications of IT)

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Major Kirrahe: Though rumors suggest that you're building a superweapon of some kind?
Commander Shepard: There were rumors I were dead, too. You can't believe everything you hear.
Major Kirrahe: Except you were dead.
Commander Shepard: Was I?

(This basically sums up the entire ending debate)

----------

Stargazer kid: Tell me another story about the Shepard.
Stargazer: It's getting late, but... okay. One more story.

Don't underestimate the Reapers' ability to indoctrinate and convert, or you'll be in for a surprise:

Soldier: But converting other life forms into Reapers... I can't wrap my head around that.
Garrus: Makes sense to me. It ensures you never run out of cannon fodder. Eliminates any local resistance. And for every soldier you add, your enemy loses two: the one you converted, and his buddy on the other side who can't pull the trigger on a friend. (...)
Soldier: But the Reapers want to destroy us.
Garrus: And I have no intention of letting them. But If you don't respect your enemy's capabilities, you're in for one nasty surprise after another.

People who picked control/synthesis think they're safe, but they've gone down:

Bailey: There's a false sense of security here. Even people from worlds that have gone down act like they're safe. I guess it's not just human nature. We all lie to ourselves to deal with horror.

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Javik: The Sinril claimed to have found the path to eternal peace.
Garrus: So what happened?
Javik: The Dittakar preferred war, and wiped them out.
Garrus: I hope you guys had alcohol.

Denying reality, living in the illusion:

Kaidan: Are you flirting with me, Commander? Wait, wait! Don't tell me. Let me live in the illusion.

----------

Javik: You can't keep denying reality, Asari.

(The Asari Goddess isn't some kind of deity, it's just a Prothean - The 'catalyst' isn't some godlike creature, it's just a Reaper)

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Aria: We all have our delusions.

References to the breath scene, waking up and facing the reality of the situation:

Anderson: Shepard. So I imagine you've wiped the galaxy clean of Reapers, and we can all come up for air?

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Bailey: I think all the reports are starting to sink in. You can only live in denial so long.
Shepard: You either wake up or die. Either way...

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EDI: I am starting to understand what the word "nightmare" means to organics. And why you feel trapped when you can't wake up.

(You can't wake up in control/synthesis and are trapped in the Reaper illusion)

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Liara: This nightmare never ends.
Shepard: The hell it won't. We get to this artifact and we can all wake up.

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Shepard: You know, there are views like that on the Citadel. Next time we're there, you should take some shore leave. Clear your head.
Steve Cortez: I don't know. Maybe.
Shepard: Take some time off on the Citadel, Steve. Do it as a favour to me.
Steve: If you put it that way, how can I say no?
Shepard: You can't.

Ask your crew for their opinions, or you'll miss crucial context for the end:

EDI: Moral decisions should not be made in a vacuum. If I do not ask the crew for their opinions, I could miss crucial context.

(Your entire crew tells you to destroy, also hilarious reference to the fact that Shepard is making his decision in the vacuum of space - it's not real!)

There is a right choice, and it is not the one where you save everybody:

Shepard: If you'd saved them all, would things have worked out better?
Vega: I... I don't know. I don't think so.
Shepard: The right choice is usually not the easy one.

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Garrus: If just one survivor is left standing at the end of the war, then the fight was worth it. But humans want to save everyone. In this war, that's not going to happen.

-----------

Shepard: It's hard enough you're fighting a war, but it's even worse knowing that no matter how hard you try, you can't save them all.

Controlling the Reapers is an illusion:

Javik: Subjugating the Reapers will not bring victory, only extinction will.

----------

Shepard (to Miranda): There's things you don't have control over.

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Bailey: Yeah, I'm just like everyone else, losing myself in things I can control. And at the moment, that means creating the illusion of security here.

We need to fight, or we will die:

Shepard (to James Vega): Don't let them take your will to fight.

(In control/synthesis, you throw away your gun, destroy is the ending in which you keep fighting)

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Shepard: We fight, or we die.

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Javik: We fight, or we die.

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Javik: Vengeance is the goal, suicide is not.

(You kill yourself in every ending except destroy)

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Anderson: Mostly you were hired to kill Reapers. I hope you haven't been sidetracked by all the politics.

(Destroy is the goal, not compromising with the Reapers)

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Batarian preacher, in Omega DLC: Draw your weapons for the word, my friends! Draw your weapons and fight! Else certain doom awaits us all!

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Batarian preacher, in Omega DLC: Sally forth and blaze gloriously through the stars!

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Batarian preacher, in Omega DLC: You were warned! You were all warned! Watch now as the hands of the Reapers, the human invaders, lay ruin to all we hold dear!

Player outrage over the endings and the resulting speculation:

Shepard: We did present them with a lot of unknowns. They're feeling threatened and want immediate solutions, not theories.
Hackett: Theories are all we've got right now.

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Osaba: Yes! I have spoken to you before. Why do you refuse to help me? If it's possible my son Bilal is still alive, I will not rest until he's found. Yes - his squad did return. I could - but they ignore me, refuse to even look me in the eye. Why won't you help me? I simply want my son found!

A possible analogy for what happens in the destroy ending:

Shepard: EDI, you're in Dr. Eva's body?
EDI: Not all of me, but I have control of it. It was not a seamless transition.
Shepard: Transition? You blacked out on us there, for a while.
EDI: Correct. When we brought this unit on board, I began a background process to search for its information on the Prothean device. This eventually triggered a trap - a backup power source and CPU activated, and the unit attempted physical confrontation. Fortunately, I was able to gain root access and repurpose it as I saw fit. During this process, it struggled. Thus, the fire.

(The destroy option is not offered by the catalyst - it is Shepard's mind resisting the attempt to control him, which leads to a violent reaction. If correct, this -could- mean that even though Shepard resisted, Harbinger established a foothold)

Hilarious reference to the control ending and the child:

Shepard: You have a copy of a Shepard VI?
Sales Clerk: Oh yeah, the one based on that war hero? We locked it after some kid spilled soda over the hardware. I'll unlock it, but we've only got the demo version working.

A reveal is near, the myth becoming reality will change history:

Dr. Bryson: When the rest of the galaxy says something doesn't exist, I take that as a chance to prove that it does.
Shepard: So you're in it for the challenge?
Dr. Bryson: For the truth. Even as late as 2148, humanity still thought aliens were a myth, That was within my lifetime. Once that myth was proven to be reality, our entire history changed.
Shepard: Reapers were part of that reality, too.
Dr. Bryson: But even they have a history, Commander. If we can just uncover it, there may be a weakness we can exploit.
Shepard: I could've used your help three years ago.
Dr. Bryson: Yes. If people had paid more attention to your Prothean beacon, we might not be in this war. But now, with new information we've uncovered, a breakthrough is near.

Again IT is awesome. Very well writen DD.

Thanks, Master!

And thanks to alllllll of you for helping me collect all those quotes!

I'm with ya.. no problems at all with your proposed thesis there.

brilliant collection of quotes sir. lots of food for thought.

Gonna add a few quotes for why Synthesis is not the way to go which i did not see on the list. It is my old favorites from Legion's loyalty mission in ME2:

Jack: "If you screwed with my head, made me nod and smile at everything...Id rather you blew my head of. Let me die as me"

Samara: "If you change who someone is, how they think, you have killed them. they will be something new in the same body."

Thane: "If you change who the heretics are, you've killed them. Killed their perspective."

May not be so much fourth wall breaking, but no one is going to tell me the above cannot be applied to Synthesis...or Control for that matter if you really feel sad for the poor Reapers

Good stuff. Some of the foreshadowing in this game is very well hidden, but once it's pointed out, you can't not see it!

@Raistlin Majere

Good ones. There's much more that supports IT in terms of quotes, but this topic is more about the hidden foreshadowing.

I'll make a new topic with -all- the quotes that support IT.

As far as anti-synthesis goes, Mordin's quotes are my favourites. ("Replaced by tech.")

Nice. Very Nice.

Love it, that was really interesting!

Looking forward to seeing a new and comprehensive Quotes topic DD.

We should also probably try to link the quotes to Youtube videos wherever possible as well, like BleedingUranium did with in the BSN signature.

In the meantime, for the fun of it:

Leviathan: "Your memories will give voice to our words. Your nature will be revealed to us. Accept this."

Puts a nice spin on the post-beam sequences and the Catalyst conversation, doesn't it? Then we got:

Saren: The relationship is symbiotic. Organic and machine intertwined, a union of flesh and steel. The strengths of both, the weaknesses of neither. I am a vision of the future, Shepard. The evolution of all organic life. This is our destiny. Join Sovereign and experience a true rebirth!

Uh-huh. Synthesis is totally not foreshadowed, right?

No 4th wall can withstand this amount of eye winking. The amount of foreshadowing is simply mindblowing once you know what to look for.

Great compilation DD!

This is amazing! It puts an entire different feeling and meaning on the conversations. It's not only in key parts of the game, this stuff is everywhere! Good work!

Oh right to add to the above, how many times again was it the word "Nightmare" was used throughout the game? Someone found out and it was quite ridiculous.

Even more fun was the fact that it was mostly used in relation to the Reapers and it also cropped up in both Leviathan and Omega.

Raistlin Majere wrote:Oh right to add to the above, how many times again was it the word "Nightmare" was used throughout the game? Someone found out and it was quite ridiculous.

Even more fun was the fact that it was mostly used in relation to the Reapers and it also cropped up in both Leviathan and Omega.

I think almost every squadmate has a nightmare line.

For example:
Tali: "I used to have nightmares about the Geth attacking me in my sleep when I was a child" (rough paraphrase) This happens on Thessia... Right as you see a Reaper Capital ship...

401 Kill wrote:

Raistlin Majere wrote:Oh right to add to the above, how many times again was it the word "Nightmare" was used throughout the game? Someone found out and it was quite ridiculous.

Even more fun was the fact that it was mostly used in relation to the Reapers and it also cropped up in both Leviathan and Omega.

I think almost every squadmate has a nightmare line.

For example:
Tali: "I used to have nightmares about the Geth attacking me in my sleep when I was a child" (rough paraphrase) This happens on Thessia... Right as you see a Reaper Capital ship...

Exactly and considering Shepard goes through literal nightmares keying the word "nightmare" to the Reapers says quite a bit.

Nice work in posting this. I knew about a few of these lines but not many of them.

What was it that Eve said to me recently in my current playthrough? It was something like...

"One learns to appreciate the light by living in dark."

Appreciation can mean understanding. And as it pertains to the ending, one gains understanding of the two bright options (Control's electro-rods and Synthesis' beam) when one manages to live after choosing the relatively dark Destroy path.

Interesting. Maybe she is referring to the darkness of the entire ending, until we all wake up and see the light of dawn.

I just remembered I found a whole bunch of quotes recently that I didn't even put in the OP.

I'll post them later/tomorrow.

ElSuperGecko wrote:Looking forward to seeing a new and comprehensive Quotes topic DD.

We should also probably try to link the quotes to Youtube videos wherever possible as well, like BleedingUranium did with in the BSN signature.

In the meantime, for the fun of it:

Leviathan: "Your memories will give voice to our words. Your nature will be revealed to us. Accept this."

Puts a nice spin on the post-beam sequences and the Catalyst conversation, doesn't it? Then we got:

Saren: The relationship is symbiotic. Organic and machine intertwined, a union of flesh and steel. The strengths of both, the weaknesses of neither. I am a vision of the future, Shepard. The evolution of all organic life. This is our destiny. Join Sovereign and experience a true rebirth!

Uh-huh. Synthesis is totally not foreshadowed, right?

Something I realized the other day:
What were the Reapers doing on Tuchanka and Rannoch?
Tuchanka: altering shroud to throw out green energy.
Rannoch: mass producing VR pods that,IIRC, use a lot of green energy.

The Rachni mission? Full of bluish greens throughout the cave network.

I think the message should be clear. When it comes to the Reapers, GREEN IS BAD!

Just launched the mission to save the Primarch's son on Tuchanka. Very first line: "This crash site's a nightmare."

And sure enough, the enemies for this mission are Reapers.

Really, how thick do they have to lay it on before people get the Reaper-nightmare connection?

ZerebusPrime wrote:Just launched the mission to save the Primarch's son on Tuchanka. Very first line: "This crash site's a nightmare."

And sure enough, the enemies for this mission are Reapers.

Really, how thick do they have to lay it on before people get the Reaper-nightmare connection?

Oh, the list with quotes that mention nightmares, dreams, and waking up is extensive. I think I've got 22 of them, so far.

I'll post it in the ultimate IT quotes topic that I'm making.

Many of the nightmare quotes are from Dr. David Gavin Archer.

Which you wouldn't get without Overlord DLC.

Any chance we can get this thread stickied as well?

ElSuperGecko wrote:Any chance we can get this thread stickied as well?

Done.