Gender?(poll)

Rifneno wrote:
Holy shit. How did you manage to squeeze that much bad into one post? I feel like I just read Sevial's autobiography. Okay first of all, like anything to do with sexuality, gender identity is complex. It's not as simple as "whatever you have now is it." For one thing, it may surprise you to find out that doctors won't just turn your penis inside out on a whim. You have to live as the gender you identify as for two years before most doctors will do the surgery. 24/7. And that's assuming you even get the surgery; I recall reading a study saying that most transgendered folk don't get the reassignment surgery at all and simply live as one gender with the "parts" of the other. It's a major surgery with major risks, major costs (you think insurance will pay for that? el oh el!), and their existing relationships may not work with the new stuff. Speaking of costs, the whole thing ends up costing in the six digits. Facial bones need reshaping, breasts need to be put in or taken out, and man, do you know how much electrolysis it takes to rid oneself of male facial hair? The thickest, coarsest hair on the human body? Oh, and pain. Ever been electrocuted a few thousand times? I believe the word is "torture." These are the sorts of things that need to be taken care of before that two year thing. This is why transgendered folks can click whatever box they damn well please when they're on a longer, harder journey than you can fathom.

Rifneno, why is it that whenever you disagree with someone they are sevial level of stupid? Shut the fuck up with that already.

What I find funny is how society is bipolar... on one hand gender roles are bullshit, and you are supposed to think personality is genderless unless you are sexist. But then, on the other hand transexuals apparently are somehow male or female on the inside. Which is it? Is there such thing as a "true man" and all women are weak caretakers of children, or is there no such thing as a "true man" and women are equal to men?

I also find it funny, how nothing about your post is relevant to my point. Point is, only 2 people checked the box right? In what world is 2 enough for something to be common? It's definitely not the case in this world. So factually speaking, it is rare for transsexual intellectual gamers to appear on THIS SPECIFIC forum. Since it's only happened twice. Also, Rif, if people are planning to get a sex change then to me that also counts... Because in that case if you select "Other", all that means is you are selecting that ahead of time. I really don't get what the hell you are going on about with the whole "trans people" suffer speech.

Gender identity is not what I was talking about. Gender identity, is what gender you associate with. That's not what I was talking about. What I meant was that no specific characteristic or qualities make you male, or female. As an example masculinity does not make me male, femininity does not make me female. So there is nothing about you mentally, that decides your gender. Gender identity is an association with gender. Just because you want to be female, when you are male, does not mean you are in fact female. You are in fact a male who wants to be female, that is all. Last time I checked, the only thing that made me a male, was my penis. I am 19 and male, therefore I am a man. There is no action I can take, no personality I can have, that will make me a woman. I need tits and a vagina, whether by default or thanks to science and technology.

And of course everyone just agrees, despite your post pretty much just being a big ole fallacy. Since you are playing the victim card in a way that is completely incoherent to the argument.

Edit: Also, people really need to stop acting like this is off topic. What is the name of the topic again? Oh yes, Gender. Either post your gender or/and GTFO if you are not going to actually contribute to the subject.

IronicParticle wrote:]Rifneno, why is it that whenever you disagree with someone they are sevial level of stupid? Shut the fuck up with that already.

Because we're not "disagreeing." I'm right, you're wrong.

What I find funny is how society is bipolar... on one hand gender roles are bullshit, and you are supposed to think personality is genderless unless you are sexist. But then, on the other hand transexuals apparently are somehow male or female on the inside. Which is it? Is there such thing as a "true man" and all women are weak caretakers of children, or is there no such thing as a "true man" and women are equal to men?

Bipolar is a mental illness noted for having both extreme manic and depressive moods. It is not a synonym for double standard, you tool. Do I have to educate you on that too? No. I'm not teaching you anything else until I start getting tuition money. The trial version of Honey Badger Explains Mental Abnormalities is good for only one query.

Moving on. There is a difference between gender identity and gender role. I'm not entirely sure how you could get the two confused (I mean, do you think people are getting a surgically created vagina so they can be a better stay at home dad?) unless you don't have the slightest clue what gender identity even is.

I also find it funny, how nothing about your post is relevant to my point. Point is, only 2 people checked the box right? In what world is 2 enough for something to be common? It's definitely not the case in this world. So factually speaking, it is rare for transsexual intellectual gamers to appear on THIS SPECIFIC forum. Since it's only happened twice. Also, Rif, if people are planning to get a sex change then to me that also counts... Because in that case if you select "Other", all that means is you are selecting that ahead of time. I really don't get what the hell you are going on about with the whole "trans people" suffer speech.

Yeah, I get that no one is as persecuted as you cancer-huffers, but lesser suffering deserves acknowledge too sometimes.

Gender identity is not what I was talking about. Gender identity, is what gender you associate with. That's not what I was talking about. What I meant was that no specific characteristic or qualities make you male, or female. As an example masculinity does not make me male, femininity does not make me female. So there is nothing about you mentally, that decides your gender. Gender identity is an association with gender. Just because you want to be female, when you are male, does not mean you are in fact female. You are in fact a male who wants to be female, that is all. Last time I checked, the only thing that made me a male, was my penis. I am 19 and male, therefore I am a man. There is no action I can take, no personality I can have, that will make me a woman. I need tits and a vagina, whether by default or thanks to science and technology.

You're talking out your ass. Medical science has long ago proven the idiocy that you spew to be wrong. People like you make me sick. You have no actual training in a psychological field and you have the unbelievable gall to spread your ignorance as fact, preaching to anyone who will listen without even taking five seconds to do a google search to make sure you're not yelling that the world is flat. People like you are why the world is still so full of prejudice and ignorance.

I'm too disgusted with you to even continue.

Wait, so science has proven sexism correct? Interesting to know, and I find it funny the sexist is the one sick with me... instead of the other way around. What next, a racist is going to tell me Micheal Jackson was white before his surgery or whatever?

Nothing about that study proved anything along the lines you are saying,. This "brenda" was NOT female just because she played with dolls. I once knew a kid, he played with dolls but nobody was told he was a girl... and nobody called him nor thought he was, a girl. But they did assume him to be a homosexual.

Edit: Also, I know what the hell Bipolar is. You act like you know it all, simply put the comparison was made because due to your condition you can suddenly have a sudden change in behavior because you are so unstable. In one instance you seem fine, the next you are a psycho. Humanity acts like that, we spontaneously become polar opposites of what we were just a second ago... at least on the scale of a collective conscious.

Edit again: My sister is Bipolar, so this is actually an observation I've made. That the unstable nature of the person, can make for some drastic changes in behavior when seemingly nothing happened at the time.

Also the point to bringing up Gender roles, was that the connotation of gender roles is that you must fill the role both physically, and mentally, to be that specific Gender. You need to play with dolls and like pink to be a girl, or need to be rough and play in the mud to be a boy.

You are saying, if a boy fits the Gender role of a female, he is female. Well technically, this "boy" had his penis burned off and I think(the article seemed ambiguous to me) he had a sex change. In that case, it was a she simply for that reason.

The article in no way proved, that she was a girl BECAUSE she played with dolls and whatnot. Which of course it didn't, because unlike sexists think, women don't have to get in the kitchen and make them a sandwich. They don't have to like pink, or be a stay at home mom, or be feminine. Men don't have to cater to the women, they don't have to be dominant, they don't have to be masculine. Etc, etc.

IP, you seem to have a very...bureaucratic perspective on gender.

MaximizedAction wrote:IP, you seem to have a very...bureaucratic perspective on gender.

I'm not good with politics so I wouldn't know.

All I know is after centuries of persecution, it is clear that the only difference between a man and a woman is 1 single thing. Because as I've said, if it was more than just that 1 difference, that would be saying women and men are unequal.

I picked female btw, because that's what I am. But you're making my point on the first few posts perfectly: the general public would still see me as male.

Ever considered why SRS is also called sex affirmation surgery? Or in German the term is even "geschlechtsangleichende Operation" which you would translate as "sex alignment surgery" as it aligns the physical gender with your psychological gender as the previous term "Geschlechtsumwandlung" ("sex change surgery", which was also how you called it in English and some still do sadly) was deemed not fitting.

Gummy wrote:I picked female btw, because that's what I am. But you're making my point on the first few posts perfectly: the general public would still see me as male.

Ever considered why SRS is also called sex affirmation surgery? Or in German the term is even "geschlechtsangleichende Operation" which you would translate as "sex alignment surgery" as it aligns the physical gender with your psychological gender as the previous term "Geschlechtsumwandlung" ("sex change surgery", which was also how you called it in English and some still do sadly) was deemed not fitting.

Maybe I shouldn't have put an "other" in the first place... I'm just used to it being done that way by others usually. But then again, society still thinks you can narrow the 300 something races down to "Caucasian", etc. How many people here knew there was 300 races, and that the differences between them are VERY slim?

Also, putting sexism aside. Trying to define gender as anything more, makes things a big jumbled mess. Humans are more complex than that. If you were to write 2 lists, 1 would be characteristics of a male and the other would be characteristics of a female. Most humans could not be placed on either list because they'd be a mish mash of those characteristics making the line so blurry you couldn't see the line even in the slightest bit.

For future reference, "Other" means you are none of the above. So you only select "Other" if you are not a Male, Female, or Robot(lol).

No, having other is quite correct actually. There are people who don't fit in any category and/or don't see themselves that way (intersex people for example).

Gummy wrote:No, having other is quite correct actually. There are people who don't fit in any category and don't want to (intersex people for example).

Yeah I edited my post, I generally made the same point as you. There is also, people who have chosen to castrate themselves due to their culture and beliefs.

Also, it is likely that in the future some people will also have no sexual organs, whenever we start dabbling in "augmentation"/enhancement technology.

Male 34.

Normally I'd rather not reveal my gender or even age. I far prefer interacting with an online persona because it forces people to consider only your words, your thoughts, your personality, and nothing else. That's how it should be in all forms of discourse, but being the animals we are (scientifically speaking), it's impossible to achieve offline.

I am surprised (pleasantly) to see people eager to share of themselves. I think it speaks highly of this community. I certainly hope no one regrets doing so.

IronicParticle wrote:

MaximizedAction wrote:IP, you seem to have a very...bureaucratic perspective on gender.

I'm not good with politics so I wouldn't know.

SwobyJ wrote:

IronicParticle wrote:

MaximizedAction wrote:IP, you seem to have a very...bureaucratic perspective on gender.

I'm not good with politics so I wouldn't know.

Something funny about that?

BlueLogic wrote:Male 34.

Normally I'd rather not reveal my gender or even age. I far prefer interacting with an online persona because it forces people to consider only your words, your thoughts, your personality, and nothing else. That's how it should be in all forms of discourse, but being the animals we are (scientifically speaking), it's impossible to achieve offline.

I am surprised (pleasantly) to see people eager to share of themselves. I think it speaks highly of this community. I certainly hope no one regrets doing so.

I agree completely.

Well that escalated quickly. IP before calling someone in here a sexist, you might want to check on the difference between "sex" and "gender". Now please stop spewing your ignorant bullshit before you emberass yourself even further.

skillz1986 wrote:Well that escalated quickly. IP before calling someone in here a sexist, you might want to check on the difference between "sex" and "gender". Now please stop spewing your ignorant bullshit before you emberass yourself even further.

Gender: The state of being male or female (typically used with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones).

Sex:
Noun
(chiefly with reference to people) Sexual activity, including specifically sexual intercourse.
Verb
Determine the sex of: "sexing chickens".
Synonyms
gender

I don't know what the hell you are talking about Skillz. I should be saying that to you I guess. Sex is a Synonym for Gender, they mean the same thing. Unless you mean intercourse, in which case Sexism has nothing to do with having sex.

I said "check on it" not "pick the first definition that fits you bullsbit".
Although every single professor from my days at university would freaking kill me for referencing wikipedia, i also refuse to do your research for you.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_and_gender_distinction#section_3

Sex and gender are the same thing? Uh, no.

This is basic gender studies. I literally think they teach this on the first day of class.

Hrothdane wrote:Sex and gender are the same thing? Uh, no.

This is basic gender studies. I literally think they teach this on the first day of class.

Yes, they do. Mr. Knowitall however seems to have missed that.

Hrothdane wrote:Sex and gender are the same thing? Uh, no.

This is basic gender studies. I literally think they teach this on the first day of class.

Correct.

Which adds to the

skillz1986 wrote:I said "check on it" not "pick the first definition that fits you bullsbit".
Although every single professor from my days at university would freaking kill me for referencing wikipedia, i also refuse to do your research for you.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_and_gender_distinction#section_3

Actually we used the same definition, hence the "typically used with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones".

The definition of gender I used, was referring to both biological AND cultural Gender.

You want to know what else is a part of culture? Tradition... Culture is flawed, bringing up it's flaws is not an argument. Which, cultural Gender is a flaw of culture. As I've said nobody fits the cultural definition, we are all too complex for that, we are a crazy mish mash. You can't narrow a person down to either gender in that case if we mean the cultural definition.

SwobyJ wrote:

Hrothdane wrote:Sex and gender are the same thing? Uh, no.

This is basic gender studies. I literally think they teach this on the first day of class.

Correct.

Which adds to the

Hello troll.

I am just trying to make sense of this, because according to you guys... I'm a woman. I am fairly feminine, am not really strong or dominant, etc.

I get that culture regards me as not a "true man", but the cultural definition of gender is born from ignorance and bias. It's a load of crap.

You do realize though, that the "oh so biased" cultural definition is aeons ahead of you when it comes to tollerance? It actually allows humans with a penis to consider themselves- and/or- be considered by others as a woman, if they so desire. You however, do not.

skillz1986 wrote:You do realize though, that the "oh so biased" cultural definition is aeons ahead of you when it comes to tollerance? It actually allows humans with a penis to consider themselves- and/or- be considered by others as a woman, if they so desire. You however, do not.

That doesn't really make sense at all, either a person fits the label or they don't... I can't choose to not be an Atheist, not without changing my beliefs or lack thereof in this case. It's not based on desire, under the definition I am a woman. I can't choose otherwise without changing the qualities I have that fit under that definition.