(XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

What do you mean, "mirrors"?

The vision is mostly Synthesis horror. And Ilos.

Yeah, I'm not following either.

smash016 wrote:What do you mean, "mirrors"?

The vision is mostly Synthesis horror. And Ilos.

the vision shows an invasion - and has the same window design as it does on earth (in the conference room) when the reapers hit. An explosion from said window - just like in the beginning of 3.

You mean the vision from Arrival?

DoomsdayDevice wrote:You mean the vision from Arrival?

ok. you know the original prothean beacon vision (when shep gets zapped in ME1)?

I think it could be foreshadowing Shep's indoctrination.

from this



to this



like I said - i could be wrong.

dorktainian wrote:

DoomsdayDevice wrote:You mean the vision from Arrival?

ok.  you know the original prothean beacon vision (when shep gets zapped in ME1)?

I think it could be foreshadowing Shep's indoctrination.  

from this



to this



like I said - i could be wrong.  

i like the idea, but i doubt it was intentional (mostly because i doubt a lot of the details of ME3 were known at ME1's release). the pillars in that image reminded me of trees, actually (as opposed to buildings/windows; see http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20081024150038/masseffect/images/thumb/a/a0/MEvisionSEQ3394.jpg/1000px-MEvisionSEQ3394.jpg). plus, i'm not sure how an image showing a reaper invasion (broadly speaking) foreshadows indoctrination specifically. unless you think there's something specific about that image that resembles indoctrination as it was described/illustrated in ME1?

smash016 wrote:The fact that Shepard has obscure synthetic components, possibly of Reaper origin, visibly even behind the face and eyes, can in theory be used to explain a lot of things that would be bizarre for regular human characters.

Like getting resurrected in the first place.

lol, true story. But chit chat like that will get you banned over at the BSN Derptard Hive Mind.

dorktainian wrote:

DoomsdayDevice wrote:You mean the vision from Arrival?

ok.  you know the original prothean beacon vision (when shep gets zapped in ME1)?

I think it could be foreshadowing Shep's indoctrination.  

from this



to this



like I said - i could be wrong.  

No, I don't think there's any significant resemblance. It looks different. Not a window.

we'll see. like I say it's just an idea.

nah he's in London. leviathan foreshadows (or retrospectively shows us......) that shep's mind can be taken and shown things that are not really happening.

They look like "arcologies" (skyscrapers) to me. We find them on Ilos.



What is of course suspicious about the ME3 opening scene is how everyone gets blasted to shreds but Shepard survives, and fades in and out of consciousness there. Not unlike the ME3 ending, actually.

It creates an opportunity for writers to... you know, mess with us.

smash016 wrote:They look like "arcologies" (skyscrapers) to me. We find them on Ilos.



What is of course suspicious about the ME3 opening scene is how everyone gets blasted to shreds but Shepard survives, and fades in and out of consciousness there. Not unlike the ME3 ending, actually.

It creates an opportunity for writers to... you know, mess with us.

Anderson was there and he survives, infact he calls out to Shepard to wake up and get moving.

I know. What about it?

smash016 wrote:I know. What about it?

That it may have nothing to do with being suspicious. At best it's a plot mechanic to have dramatic effect with people dying at the start and obviously your mentor has to be around to reinstate your commission into the Alliance Military and all that.

Unless of course the entire thing was a dream sequence right from Arrival DLC

never looked at ilos like that smash. good spot.

windsurfing wrote:That it may have nothing to do with being suspicious. At best it's a plot mechanic to have dramatic effect with people dying at the start and obviously your mentor has to be around to reinstate your commission into the Alliance Military and all that.

Unless of course the entire thing was a dream sequence right from Arrival DLC

Again, for every speculative thought, there's an obvious, face-value explanation.

Anderson is there after the London beam run, when reality basically starts to collapse and IT begins according to many, so that alone proves nothing.

I'm speaking hypothetically here. There are a few similarities between these scenes, like surviving a direct Reaper attack while everyone around you doesn't, and subsequently losing consciousness. Plus if, and only if, the writers wanted part of the narrative to be an illusion of sorts, then altered states of consciousness provide a covert way to introduce it.

The Vancouver scene does feel a little off to me, like it does to Dorktainian. Think about it, Shepard phasing out like that for a sec wasn't really required, neither does it add something by itself. Had he/she just fallen down and stood up, it'd be the same scene.

The most interesting thing about that scene is that the moment Shepard is thrown across the room and she lands on that bench, is the first time in the game you hear a snippet of the dream music. It's not really audible unless you look for it.

Prettz made a video that separates the audio channels, and you can hear it really well on some channels, especially with headphones.



I have personally theorized that this is the moment where the child's image (or the 'seed' for the dreams, if you will) is 'planted'. That's why the Reapers immediately attack the room Shepard is in. Speculations, I know.

Watched that vid before, but never identified the dream music snippet.

I really wonder why they inserted it and play it "subliminally."

ME3's lead audio designer has said there are hidden audio messages in the game.

DoomsdayDevice wrote:The most interesting thing about that scene is that the moment Shepard is thrown across the room and she lands on that bench, is the first time in the game you hear a snippet of the dream music. It's not really audible unless you look for it.

Prettz made a video that separates the audio channels, and you can hear it really well on some channels, especially with headphones.



I have personally theorized that this is the moment where the child's image (or the 'seed' for the dreams, if you will) is 'planted'. That's why the Reapers immediately attack the room Shepard is in. Speculations, I know.

Possible.

But there'another interpretation, knocking shepard out reveals the underlying music which is the music of the dream.
In that case shepard is dreaming all along. Dreams within dreams.

Yeah, not a big fan of the 'dreaming all along' thing, to put it mildly.

Also, to clarify: I didn't exactly mean the Reapers put the image of the child in Shep's head. More that they planted the 'seed' for the dreams, the worry about casualties, and used the image of the child in this way. Mayyyybe the kid was real in the first shot, and the Reapers found this recent memory and started exploiting it. (Although it's weird the kid's on a roof)

smash016 wrote:

Again, for every speculative thought, there's an obvious, face-value explanation.

....snipped....

Your arguments for there being suspicious elements to the starting scenes of ME3 are just as valid as the case for people saying everything after Arrival DLC is questionable. Just like people having very good points for how the dream sequence starts after the cockroach shuttle gets hit in priority earth while majority of the folks believe the true dream sequences start after Harby's blast.

In support of your case I can add more aspects like the garden in which the kid was playing disappears after the reapers hit the area during Shepard's trail. Not to mention the kid seems to have super human abilities to scale areas given the short span of time of the whole sequence. For a small kid he was also very smug and fatalistic about his impending doom. All very convincing that the whole of ME3 is a little too off for comfort.

The problem with all these "it was all a dream all along" claims is that there are far too many points in ME2 and ME3 from when this could have happened. Let me put out a crazy idea of my own, what guarantee is there that the collectors didn't have Shepard going through some mind matrix like illusion for the whole of ME2 and ME3 right after he gets clinically killed at the start of ME2? Just like joker implies: I mean how could you know really know? You could be only thinking you were resurrected by Cerberus.

I am with DoomsdayDevice on this one too, not really sure which version to consider seriously. If I were to go by my gut feelings when I first played through ME3, the dream sequence starts right after Shepard gets hit by harbinger.

Agreed. If it wasn't clear, I don't pretend to know when the illusion starts.

ha

Watching the Mass Effect 3 movie on Youtube, the beginning of ME3 again (- with my ears open - and you can deffo hear the dream music kick in.)

But there are also more things that suggest something about the whole situation is 'off'.

Take for example the feed from london of 'the invasion' where the soldier is reporting in.... take a look at the screen... (coincidence?). Shepard and anderson are side by side when the explosion hits, yet when shep comes to anderson is almost untouched and at the other end of the room.

Somethings not right. It looks it, but it's not right.....

Hah, that reminds me. One cool and intriguing detail is that in Citadel DLC, when you meet up with Kaidan in the apartment, you're having a conversation with him while he's cooking for you. At some point during the conversation the TV in the kitchen (which was clearly shown to be off at the beginning of the scene, see 0:11 in the video below) suddenly turns on; you see the screen flickering with some static, then it starts playing a fragment of footage from the invasion feed from the beginning of the game. (1:02)

While this could just be some ANN broadcast about the galaxy-wide invasion, it always strikes me as suspicious. It's especially fishy because the TV is shown to be off, then randomly flicks on during the conversation, while neither Shepard nor Kaidan activates it. It's as if Shepard is seeing some images from memory, ones that remind him of all the casualties.

Also, a few moments later the screen goes black and it says 'Signal loss', then 'Signal incoming', then it shows images from the invasion in Vancouver. (1:09) Thing is, it can't be a live feed. Also, right after both of these moments, Shepard's eyes are clearly shown to be staring at the screen before she directs her attention back to Kaidan. (1:07 and 1:12)

It's subtle and intriguing, something is clearly off.

IMO it's more evidence that indoctrination is at work.

Here's an interesting thought that I hadn't considered...what if the child is both real and not real...

What if the initial image of the child playing on the roof is real...but that roof is blasted in the inital attack...the child is killed at this point...Shep is knocked semi-unconscious and the seeds for indoctrinated planted, taking advantage of the memory that is "closest to the surface" - the Reaper's use the child's image to influence Shep and try to force a "sense of loss"...and every vision of the child afterwards is a sign of the indoctrination.

When the child says "you can't help me" that should be enough for people to know something is up!