(XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by TurianRebel212 on Mon Sep 29, 2014 7:37 am

Are we taking the Battle for Earth as legit and real now?????


Cause..... I mean.... What do you think happens to all the misses from Sword Fleet......


Just sayin'.

*Tops biatches!*

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by dorktainian on Mon Sep 29, 2014 8:43 am

the end legit? Seriously?


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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by Terramine on Mon Sep 29, 2014 10:20 am

hyolo wrote:
Terramine wrote:
hyolo wrote:This whole talk about "masculinity" or "femininity" is pure garbage and misogynist. Pure and simple social construture to determine a gender by its sex and social roles. I will not prolong about this because I usually don't, I only kindly ask you to not say things like they're black or white. Everything has a spectrum and so does people. And if some chicks have "men's" voice, well, it is her voice, not a men's.
Yes, I'm a woman and yes, it is offensive.
As the same thing as saying "she's bitching" or "she's a bitch". No, don't do that.
Some terms are so offensive some people don't even realize it.
Offense should be based on reason. For instance, I am offended by racism because of the sheer illogical nature of it. It denies all evidence for the sake of hating fellow human beings based on skin color. In a universe where people suffer enough as it is, you go and make people of a specific skin color suffer for said skin color? Fuck that.

I think you need to realize that I'm not your enemy. Masculinity and Femininity are not social constructs, but rather duality in a dual universe. I am not advocating sexism, to the contrary. I WANT women who are masculine, and men who are feminine. Though I'm masculine myself, so I most appreciate fellow human beings who are masculine and value the way of the warrior.

I truly, respect women who are warriors as much as any man. I'm talking to a fellow human being who is female, setting up a consensual spar. We shall fight when we meet, to a dangerous extent, but without the intent to kill. It shall be glorious and fun! Beautiful even. If they beat me, I will accept them as my superior as I attempt to improve. If i beat them, I will accept them as my EQUAL, not my inferior.

I hope you understand? I'm not sexist, I'm probably the most justice and equality loving person you'll meet.

I know you're not my enemy, I give you my word on that. All I'm trying to say is that saying something is masculine or feminine is instantly saying it belongs to a man or a woman.
Also to that extent, we may live in a dual universe for some, but for others, we don't. Obviously, in the end, it is about one or the other, but until then, it isn't. For example, a really poor but to the point one, when a woman has a "masculine" voice, she's called a butch, like it is bad. On the other hand, the man is called a "girl" like it is also bad. So, that's why I'm saying rotulating something masculine or feminine can be offensive or maybe it can't, you know? It depends. That's also why it's better to avoid it at most times than to put someone else like they're inferior.
I belive you're not sexist. However, some terms are built around sexism, racism, homo/bi/transphobia, assexual/panssexual/demissexual etc etc and, again, some people don't even realize it. That's all I'm saying, Terramine. Not trying to indiviually attack you. I'm sorry if I sound like I am.
Well, I'm not sure what to say to that. I don't think I'm part of the problem. I'm part of the solution. I talk about it all as if it's positive and unbiased. Even if I throw the words masculine and feminine out... I'm trying to point to specific qualities that I don't believe another word exists to take the place of those 2 words. The deep sharpness to the voice, the way it's confident and strong and powerful. The way it can sound inherently commanding when it demands "MOVE". Not just by tone, but the voice itself sounds like it's got authority.

And I'm not judging those women who have what I called "a man's voice". I simply believe there is not enough representation of the specific qualities in what I refer to as the "female voice". I love that kind of voice, I wish I had it, I'm told I have a "young male" voice lmao I want a voice that has power to it. I respect such voices. It's one of the things that makes my idol so awesome from my perspective.

Also, while I said it was duality. I don't actually believe in ultimate duality. I believe what happens is, there is a reverse of everything... a flip side... and these opposites are not actually in conflict. Rather, they come together to complete a single non-dual picture. In this case "masculinity" and "femininity" are opposite qualities in social creatures. I never meant that duality is inherent, just that it does exist and this is one of those cases. I think a proper warrior finds the right balance between these qualities anyways though. I would consider myself to have masculine AND feminine qualities.

But again I think I'm part of the solution. I'm sitting here expressing praise of a female having these qualities. I'm saying it's impressive on Bioware's part and that I endorse it fully. I want to SHATTER the sexism that exists, I want to promote removing the bullshit barriers between male and female. In fact, notice how I assert that a male sounding voice ISN'T "masculine" per se. That it doesn't necessarily have the qualities I'm talking about. Greydon's, MaleShep's and FemShep's voices have something to them that are above male or female. Most men I know, with an average "male" voice... don't have what I'm talking about. And clearly I think FemShep's voice stereotypically fits a "female" voice right... yet I believe she has the qualities I'm talking about? So it's got nothing to do with whether you sound stereotypically male or stereotypically female. And I'm making that clear.

For the record I am Male, Genderfluid, Bidemisexual, Panromantic.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by TurianRebel212 on Mon Sep 29, 2014 10:56 am

dorktainian wrote:the end legit?  Seriously?


lol, my thoughts exactly.


Side note-

Lol, dafuq. No one gives 2 shits about your feminine or masculine qualities. So cowboy the fuck up and......


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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by Rifneno on Mon Sep 29, 2014 12:12 pm

TurianRebel212 wrote:Are we taking the Battle for Earth as legit and real now?????


Cause..... I mean.... What do you think happens to all the misses from Sword Fleet......


Just sayin'.

Actually, those shots wouldn't make it through Earth's murderous atmosphere.  Earth has a very harsh atmospheric re-entry.  Dreadnought rounds are essentially 20 kilos of iron.  Norlond did the math once, said there'd be nothing left of them by the time they hit the ground.
Anyways, vanilla IT never states when the illusion begins.  Most think it begins at Harby's beam.  So that's what we generally debate around.

*Tops biatches!*

Seriously?  "Top?"  I'm so ashamed...  I can't even look at you right now.

*snaps on gloves*  Now then...

hyolo wrote:I know you're not my enemy, I give you my word on that.

I am, though.  I consider SJWs and feminists one step above things like pedophiles.

All I'm trying to say is that saying something is masculine or feminine is instantly saying it belongs to a man or a woman.
Also to that extent, we may live in a dual universe for some, but for others, we don't. Obviously, in the end, it is about one or the other, but until then, it isn't.

I've never seen so many words so say little.

For example, a really poor but to the point one, when a woman has a "masculine" voice, she's called a butch, like it is bad. On the other hand, the man is called a "girl" like it is also bad.

Of course it's bad.  You're supposed to have the features of your own gender, not the opposite one.  If a woman has chest hair, it's bad.  If a man is 4'10, it's bad.  This may come as a shock to you, but life is not fair.  The world is not fair.  Nature is, by leaps and bounds, not fair.  Deal with it.  Accept it, because neither you, nor I, nor anyone else can change it.  Some people have unattractive features and a man with an effeminate voice is little different than a man with a very large nose.

So, that's why I'm saying rotulating something masculine or feminine can be offensive or maybe it can't, you know? It depends. That's also why it's better to avoid it at most times than to put someone else like they're inferior.

Do you think if you pretend hard enough there's no difference between genders that men will start having babies?

I belive you're not sexist. However, some terms are built around sexism, racism, homo/bi/transphobia, assexual/panssexual/demissexual etc etc and, again, some people don't even realize it. That's all I'm saying, Terramine. Not trying to indiviually attack you. I'm sorry if I sound like I am.

Yes, those phrases are called "slurs."  "Spear chucker" is a phrase built around racism, "black" is not, and to hell with anyone who says "PoC."  But not before to hell with anyone who uses made up SJW bullshit like panssexual or cis.

Terramine wrote:Well, I'm not sure what to say to that. I don't think I'm part of the problem. I'm part of the solution.

There is no problem.  In a world where child slave labor provides 60% of the chocolate globally, pretending phrases like "masculine/feminine voice" is a big problem is pathetic.

This is another reason I just cannot stand feminists.  In a world where a couple dozen countries still regularly practice female genital mutilation, all these western feminists spend their time complaining about things like a wage gap that doesn't really exist or harmless words and phrases that no intelligent person would consider a problem.  Feminists aren't concerned with real problems faced by other women, they'y only concerned with themselves and crying out about illusionary injustices.  Absolutely disgusting.

I want to SHATTER the sexism that exists,

Somewhere in the middle east, they're cutting off some girl's clitoris so "she doesn't cheat on her husband."  That's a problem.  This here?  This here is just pathetic.

I want to promote removing the bullshit barriers between male and female.

I'll pose you the same question: do you think if you pretend hard enough that men and women are the same, that men will start having babies?

For the record I am Male, Genderfluid, Bidemisexual, Panromantic.

For the record, take it to tumblr.  The Internet will be a better place if you SJWs keep your circus in one place.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by DoomsdayDevice on Mon Sep 29, 2014 12:32 pm

Terramine wrote:For the record I am Male, Genderfluid, Bidemisexual, Panromantic.

Does this prove IT?

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by TurianRebel212 on Mon Sep 29, 2014 6:02 pm

After I read rif's post-




Okay, now back to IT.

So Rif, when do you think the hallucination begins?


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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by spotlessvoid on Mon Sep 29, 2014 6:23 pm

I fucking love you man
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by Raistlin Majere on Mon Sep 29, 2014 6:30 pm

TurianRebel212 wrote:

So Rif, when do you think the hallucination begins?


I am pretty sure Rif considers Cronos Station as the start of the hallucination.

As for me I am more torn. The beam seems the most logical place for a transition, with the fadeout and proximity of Harbinger following. However weird shit starts even before that, so it is hard to say exactly where. I think I consider it a floating transition, slowly getting more and more surreal before full blown hallucination.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by spotlessvoid on Mon Sep 29, 2014 6:35 pm

obviously object rho in the breath scene
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by RavenEyry on Mon Sep 29, 2014 6:59 pm

smash016 wrote:I guess that's why she's one of the most decorated game VAs out there... And Meer was just a nobody before he landed the role of Shepard.

Guy can't even hide his Canadian accent. That's not my opinion, that's proof he's a technically lousy voice actor.

Male Shepard is just a geek who doesn't give a shit.

Why would he need to hide his accent?

The game never says Shepard ISN'T canadian, and Hale is canadian too, just not as accented.

Although I dislike his Shep voice, he's a perfectly fine VA, as seen on various vorcha and hanar.
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by vlad78 on Mon Sep 29, 2014 7:32 pm

Rifneno wrote:
TurianRebel212 wrote:Are we taking the Battle for Earth as legit and real now?????


Cause..... I mean.... What do you think happens to all the misses from Sword Fleet......


Just sayin'.

Actually, those shots wouldn't make it through Earth's murderous atmosphere.  Earth has a very harsh atmospheric re-entry.  Dreadnought rounds are essentially 20 kilos of iron.  Norlond did the math once, said there'd be nothing left of them by the time they hit the ground.
Anyways, vanilla IT never states when the illusion begins.  Most think it begins at Harby's beam.  So that's what we generally debate around.

Hum what do you think of the consequences on the athmosphere of such a hellish rain which is thrown so much faster than a common asteroid would fly?

Lore says defensive fleets around a garden planet try to locate themselves between the planet and the attacking fleet which would not risk firing at the planet for fear of destroying everything on the ground.

It's in the lore. Real physic doesn't really count notwithstanding the calculus you were talking about which apparently did not take into account the specifics of Mass Effect weaponery.
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by vlad78 on Mon Sep 29, 2014 7:36 pm

spotlessvoid wrote:obviously object rho in the breath scene

Object Rho is optional.

Logically is can't be there because not every playthrough use arrival dlc.
If there's a start of the illusion, it must be located in the main games.
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by ElSuperGecko on Mon Sep 29, 2014 8:25 pm



All I said was Mark Meer is an absolute legend.  Come back to another episode of "The Gender Wars".

Anyway, Mark tweeted the IT Theory account.  Vorcha cosplay for the win.

vlad78 wrote:
Object Rho is optional.

Logically is can't be there because not every playthrough use arrival dlc.
If there's a start of the illusion, it must be located in the main games.

Really? Does that mean the Extended Cut DLC can be safely ignored as well,because not every player experience dit? Because I'd love that.

Seriously - I disagree with the above statement. The DLCs Bioware releasedare all official content and expansions to the story. If a player choses not to experience them, that's up to them, but skipping a chapter doesn't mean it's not part of the overall story.


Last edited by ElSuperGecko on Mon Sep 29, 2014 8:33 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by spotlessvoid on Mon Sep 29, 2014 8:28 pm

vlad78 wrote:
spotlessvoid wrote:obviously object rho in the breath scene

Object Rho is optional.

Logically is can't be there because not every playthrough use arrival dlc.
If there's a start of the illusion, it must be located in the main games.

1. that was a joke
2. DLC is canon.
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by Rifneno on Mon Sep 29, 2014 8:31 pm

TurianRebel212 wrote:
So Rif, when do you think the hallucination begins?

Third dream never ends, just gets more realistic.

There's a shittbon wrong with Cronos. I can find barely anything wrong with Sanctuary, but there's just pages of stuff about Cronos that doesn't make sense.

There's also the fact that the space battle above Earth can't have really taken place. That fleet is basically the entire galactic military. If it's wiped out, how can this cycle hope to beat the Reapers?

vlad78 wrote:Hum what do you think of the consequences on the athmosphere of such a hellish rain which is thrown so much faster than a common asteroid would fly?

Their speed would only intensify the air friction. In other words, they'd be melted to nothing faster than an object moving at a slower speed. It works out fine.

Lore says defensive fleets around a garden planet try to locate themselves between the planet and the attacking fleet  which would not risk firing at the planet for fear of destroying everything on the ground.

It's in the lore. Real physic doesn't really count notwithstanding the calculus you were talking about which apparently did not take into account the specifics of Mass Effect weaponery.

The only difference in Mass Effect's physics and the real world's is the presence of element zero and mass effect fields - which have a negligible effect on this.

It is possible that the fleets would do a ton of damage to Earth. We are using real physics and information from a speech that was intended as humor (although the physics behind it were sound - as were most of the physics in Mass Effect). Speaking of physics, do you have any idea how much crap hits Earth every day that our atmosphere vaporizes? Derelict satellites weighing several tons fall from orbit and there's barely scraps left by the time it hits the ground. The rest is just gone.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by spotlessvoid on Mon Sep 29, 2014 8:52 pm

ElSuperGecko... your video never loads for me, tried repeatedly. Could I get a url?
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by ElSuperGecko on Mon Sep 29, 2014 8:55 pm

Sure spotless - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3isNK7GuQ4

edit:  as an aside, I haven't been able to get "An End Once An For All" out of my head all weekend.  I'm surprised I haven't jumped off a bridge yet.

edit 2: Thanks Raistlin!


Last edited by ElSuperGecko on Mon Sep 29, 2014 9:06 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by smash016 on Mon Sep 29, 2014 8:58 pm

RavenEyry wrote:
smash016 wrote:I guess that's why she's one of the most decorated game VAs out there... And Meer was just a nobody before he landed the role of Shepard.

Guy can't even hide his Canadian accent. That's not my opinion, that's proof he's a technically lousy voice actor.

Male Shepard is just a geek who doesn't give a shit.

Why would he need to hide his accent?

The game never says Shepard ISN'T canadian, and Hale is canadian too, just not as accented.

Although I dislike his Shep voice, he's a perfectly fine VA, as seen on various vorcha and hanar.

Because his accent only slips every now and then. And because a professional voice actor should speak without an accent by default. I doubt male Commander Shepard was supposed to be Canadian.

Voicing a vorcha or hanar character is something quite different. I bet Adam Sandler could do a cool vorcha, too, if you get my idea.

Well, no real need to discuss this any further. We've all seen how it hurt this topic.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by Raistlin Majere on Mon Sep 29, 2014 9:02 pm

ElSuperGecko wrote:Sure spotless - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3isNK7GuQ4

Nice video.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by Rifneno on Mon Sep 29, 2014 9:03 pm

smash016 wrote:And because a professional voice actor should speak without an accent by default.


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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by smash016 on Mon Sep 29, 2014 9:15 pm

Well maybe American accents are different, but at least where I'm from professional actors only use an accent when they're told to.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by Rifneno on Mon Sep 29, 2014 9:19 pm

smash016 wrote:Well maybe American accents are different, but at least where I'm from professional actors only use an accent when they're told to.

There is no such thing as "no accent." Only no accent perceivable to the listener because it's similar to or the same as their own. That's why this is a joke. This is why Hale fanboyism is a joke.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by Byne on Mon Sep 29, 2014 9:27 pm

ElSuperGecko wrote:Seriously - I disagree with the above statement.  The DLCs Bioware releasedare all official content and expansions to the story.  If a player choses not to experience them, that's up to them, but skipping a chapter doesn't mean it's not part of the overall story.

Yeah, I'd agree with that. The way I've always looked at it is that if your character doesnt do a DLC, that makes your character not canon, not the other way around. The description for what happens with Object Rho if you dont do Arrival doesnt even make any sense. I dont know why they even bothered coming up with a different explanation.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by DoomsdayDevice on Mon Sep 29, 2014 9:30 pm

I'm not talking about Hale as a personality or anything like that. She's just the better sounding Shepard. Meer sounds so flat and boring to me. Femshep emotes a lot more IMO. Sounds meaner. *shrug*

As for 'when it starts', we should have an old poll somewhere in this section.

I still say Harby's blast.

The EC Normandy pick-up scene makes people want to think it starts at the tank crash, but to me the fact that Harby's just sitting there staring down the Normandy while shooting at everything else only proves that it needs Shepard alive, and invested. I don't have a problem with it. It seems retarded when looked at without IT in mind, but that's not limited to the evac scene.

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