Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

by Hanako Ikezawa Fri Jan 30, 2015 11:14 pm

I have been thinking something along similar lines, Rif. But it could be something that doesn't involve the Mass Relay Network being destroyed.

As we have discussed several times both here and on the BSN, Earth is going to be in a very rough way after the war is over. The same applies to all other homeworlds and colonies. We see before going to Earth on the Galaxy Map that the Reapers are literally at every other point besides the system we are in and Earth. So when the war is over, the galactic community is going to be hurting for places to live and support themselves. Perhaps that is what the A.R.K.C.O.N. Pathfinder Initiative is: going to systems that are not connected to the Mass Relay network and thus not touched by the Reapers in any significant way if at all to search for new planets for the galactic community to use. We know from the Codex that over 99% of the planets in the Milky Way galaxy are still unexplored. The protagonist could be a part of this mission. Bioware has been talking about how exploration is a huge part of this next game. If we look at the definition of the words used, we can't use A.R.K.C.O.N. because it is an acronym that we don't know the words in it stand for yet, but we know Pathfinder and Initiative.

path·find·er noun \ˈpath-ˌfīn-dər, ˈpäth-\
: a person who goes ahead of a group and finds the best way to travel through an unknown area

: a person or group that is the first to do something and that makes it possible for others to do the same thing

ini·tia·tive noun \i-ˈni-shə-tiv also -shē-ə-tiv\
the initiative : the power or opportunity to do something before others do

: the energy and desire that is needed to do something

: a plan or program that is intended to solve a problem

So the A.R.K.C.O.N. Pathfinder Initiative is about "a person or group that finds the best way to travel through an unknown area and makes it possible for others to do the same in a way that is intended to solve a problem". In this case, find and explore new worlds to solve the problems left by the Reaper War.

by **DoomsdayDevice** Fri Jan 30, 2015 11:47 pm

Rifneno wrote:
DoomsdayDevice wrote:So is this rumour based on anything or are we getting our jimmies rustled over random BS.N speculation?

Also, lore prevents it? Lore was supposed to prevent a number of things that happened anyway.

And what are those things? Many parts of ME3 can be put on IT's shoulders and thus didn't "really" happen. Aside from those types of things, I can't think of anything major that happened that's broken lore. A few minor mistakes, but nothing major. Certainly nothing on the scale of the entire basis for a game.

Yeah, true. That's Choose Wisely territory, and I don't want anything to do with that.

by dorktainian Sat Jan 31, 2015 7:39 am

ok. if we are looking at the mass relays being destroyed then it falls back on what actually did happen in 'that' ending. finding ways of transversing the universe if the relays are now defunct makes sense i suppose as the galactic community is quite large and diverse.

A.R.K.C.O.N

doesnt mean it's an ark as such. seems to me to be an abrieviation of sorts.

a is for...
r is for... etc.

no matter what theory we're discussing there are so many unanswered questions. just bloody answer them bioware.

by TurianRebel212 Sat Jan 31, 2015 11:58 am

I don't think it means anything related to ME1, ME2, ME3 and more specifically Shepard.

I think BioWare is gonna herp a derp and go full retard and "start anew" with "Mass Effect" 4 or whatever they're calling it.

There is literally ZERO main Mass Effect writers of old working on this project (apart from Mac The Hack).

Hudson. Gone.
Drew K. Gone
Weekes..... Probably gone. Maybe not, but probably.
Chris L'Etolie??? Probably gone.
Jay Turner.... naw.
Dombrow.... Nope. Not listed on his IMDB or any of the others above as well. (Weekes did write for DAI tho).

But again, the big ones missing in action are obviously Hudson and Drew K. Drew's absence was, shall we say, kinda important in ME3 and now that Hudson is gone.......

I mean, this is nothing like Mass Effect, and specifically ME1 and ME2 which are easily the high points of the series.

It scares me that Mac the Hack is the "Creative Director" or what the fuck ever they're calling it, lol. Expect major retcons and lore breaks and more "What the Fuck!" moments in ME4. Count on it.

Pathfinder

It means nothing. Nope. Just more trolling from TrollWare. They troll'd the shit outta people and actually convinced many that Dragons Age 3 was a good game, lol. Expect the same for Mass Effect Next or Shift Or Mass Effect: Pathfinder or some lame shit like that.

More of the same. But.... I am interested, if only to see how low bioware will go. If only.

Wishing for a good game. Expecting a meh game. Best to keep the standards low this time around.

*Very low*

by **DoomsdayDevice** Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:52 pm

Yeah, been bracing for major disappointment now since like forever.

by smash016 Sat Jan 31, 2015 5:29 pm

The sad part is that the next game might suck because everyone was bitching about ME3.

They were certainly planning something wonderful, e.g. IT, but the question now is will they be allowed to stick to that plan.

by ZerebusPrime Sun Feb 01, 2015 4:28 am

DoomsdayDevice wrote:Yeah, been bracing for major disappointment now since like forever.

I'm at the point where the major disappointment will probably be received with ecstatic elation. It's been too damn long.

by **DoomsdayDevice** Sun Feb 01, 2015 2:49 pm

What worries me, is that many people seem to like the lame cop-out of leaving the galaxy behind and forgetting about everything that happened. The other day my mate said to me: "They should just find a relay that connects to a different galaxy and forget about the whole Reapers thing."

*head desk*

by dorktainian Sun Feb 01, 2015 5:32 pm

DoomsdayDevice wrote:What worries me, is that many people seem to like the lame cop-out of leaving the galaxy behind and forgetting about everything that happened. The other day my mate said to me: "They should just find a relay that connects to a different galaxy and forget about the whole Reapers thing."

*head desk*

indeed.

by Rifneno Sun Feb 01, 2015 5:43 pm

Hanako Ikezawa wrote:I have been thinking something along similar lines, Rif. But it could be something that doesn't involve the Mass Relay Network being destroyed.

As we have discussed several times both here and on the BSN, Earth is going to be in a very rough way after the war is over. The same applies to all other homeworlds and colonies. We see before going to Earth on the Galaxy Map that the Reapers are literally at every other point besides the system we are in and Earth. So when the war is over, the galactic community is going to be hurting for places to live and support themselves. Perhaps that is what the A.R.K.C.O.N. Pathfinder Initiative is: going to systems that are not connected to the Mass Relay network and thus not touched by the Reapers in any significant way if at all to search for new planets for the galactic community to use. We know from the Codex that over 99% of the planets in the Milky Way galaxy are still unexplored. The protagonist could be a part of this mission. Bioware has been talking about how exploration is a huge part of this next game. If we look at the definition of the words used, we can't use A.R.K.C.O.N. because it is an acronym that we don't know the words in it stand for yet, but we know Pathfinder and Initiative.

path·find·er noun \'path-?fin-d?r, 'päth-\
: a person who goes ahead of a group and finds the best way to travel through an unknown area

: a person or group that is the first to do something and that makes it possible for others to do the same thing

ini·tia·tive noun \i-'ni-sh?-tiv also -she-?-tiv\
the initiative : the power or opportunity to do something before others do

: the energy and desire that is needed to do something

: a plan or program that is intended to solve a problem

So the A.R.K.C.O.N. Pathfinder Initiative is about "a person or group that finds the best way to travel through an unknown area and makes it possible for others to do the same in a way that is intended to solve a problem". In this case, find and explore new worlds to solve the problems left by the Reaper War.

Hmm. Interesting train of thought. Although I'm not sure why they'd need new planets to habitat. The Reapers didn't make the current worlds uninhabitable. Billions of people are dead, but the enviorment is okay (except Palaven, but even then Palaven isn't that bad). If anything, there's less need to colonize since, again, looooots of people dead and thus lots of real estate free.

DoomsdayDevice wrote:What worries me, is that many people seem to like the lame cop-out of leaving the galaxy behind and forgetting about everything that happened. The other day my mate said to me: "They should just find a relay that connects to a different galaxy and forget about the whole Reapers thing."

*head desk*

No offense, but I think your mate may be mildly retarded.

by **DoomsdayDevice** Sun Feb 01, 2015 8:17 pm

Rifneno wrote:
DoomsdayDevice wrote:What worries me, is that many people seem to like the lame cop-out of leaving the galaxy behind and forgetting about everything that happened. The other day my mate said to me: "They should just find a relay that connects to a different galaxy and forget about the whole Reapers thing."

*head desk*

No offense, but I think your mate may be mildly retarded.

lol

He did immediately grasp IT when I explained it to him though. He had taken the ending entirely literally, but he really felt like he'd fallen for it by picking control. (He was playing asshole renegade Shepard all the way)

Anyway, he really felt like Bioware were going to reveal IT with the EC or some other DLC, but when that didn't happen, I guess he's not so sure about it any more. I dunno. He's been tired of ME lately, so we don't really talk about it any longer.

by OneWithTheAssassins Tue Feb 03, 2015 1:42 am

Yeah from what I've read from you guys, this whole Ark thing sounds incredibly farfetched.
So are we all just coming to the conclusion that IT is dead and Bioderp is taking Mass Effect in a different direction?
After everything that was hinted at in ME3 and it's DLC they're dropping ALL of it? I know I've said this before but I just don't believe Bioware could do that. If they're so sure about ending Shepard's story, and that ME4 is NOT part of it, then there MUST be some kind of hint drop sprinkled though out the game that states that destroy was canon; if they ever want the geth to come back in any way, shape, or form, have the quarians rebuild them (long shot I know), but most importantly have Shepard survive and hint that s/he lived happily ever after with his/her love interest.
Will that mean that in some way the ending really happen, sounds like it. But I'm will to take anything from Bioware at this point that leads to a happy ending for Shepard and crew.

by Eryri Tue Feb 03, 2015 4:14 am

I'm beginning to suspect that they will do something similar to Hawke's appearance in DA Inquision. You'll create a world state, specifying your Shepard's general personality and love interest.

Then at some point during the game itself, the action will pause for a minute to allow you to recreate your custom Shepard as best you can in the new engine. Your new protagonist will be introduced to "Admiral" Shepard for a conversation, followed by maybe being acompanied on a mission. If you drill down far enough with the investigate option, you'll discover that Shep has had an extended leave of absence due to receiving treatment for an unspecified "neurological condition", acquired during the war. One that almost prevented him/her from destroying the Reapers...

And that will be that. Horrendously lame, but at least it would be closure, of a sort.

by TurianRebel212 Tue Feb 03, 2015 4:19 am

Eryri wrote:I'm beginning to suspect that they will do something similar to Hawke's appearance in DA Inquision. You'll create a world state, specifying your Shepard's general personality and love interest.

Then at some point during the game itself, the action will pause for a minute to allow you to recreate your custom Shepard as best you can in the new engine. Your new protagonist will be introduced to "Admiral" Shepard for a conversation, followed by maybe being acompanied on a mission. If you drill down far enough with the investigate option, you'll discover that Shep has had an extended leave of absence due to receiving treatment for an unspecified "neurological condition", acquired during the war. One that almost prevented him/her from destroying the Reapers...

And that will be that. Horrendously lame, but at least it would be closure, of a sort.

This has BioWare Logik written all over it.

This is probably what's going to happen, lol.

by dorktainian Tue Feb 03, 2015 5:49 am

dear god no....

by Eryri Tue Feb 03, 2015 6:00 am

Don't worry, I'm usually wrong about this kind of thing. And on this occasion I really, really hope I'm wrong.

by dorktainian Tue Feb 03, 2015 9:31 am

i really worry about the story to be honest. mass effect 3 didn't give us a standard ending (instead it's open to interpretation...... hence why we're here) so how the hell can they move forward without clarification of what happened to Shepard?

It really does not make any sense if they continue and just discard what happened in ME1 to 3.

by Eryri Tue Feb 03, 2015 10:56 am

Agreed. Also, if the main thrust of this game really is opening up dormant relays as "Pathfinders", then its going to have a very different tone. So different that it might seem a little too anti-climactic after the high-stakes apocalypse of ME3.

The history of the Milky Way has been dominated by the Reapers. If they go down a branch of the relay network that wasn't active in this cycle, then they'll either be picking through the dusty ruins of civilisations harvested long ago, or find pre-space-flight civilisations that were beneath the Reaper's notice. (Cue lots of Star Trek TNG style hand-wringing about whether or not to alter the natural course of their development by making contact.) Neither of which sounds super-exciting at the moment, although maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised by the spin they eventually put on it.

Might be fun if they find a planet full of powerful "biotics" and a continent called Thedas though...

by dorktainian Tue Feb 03, 2015 12:22 pm

Eryri wrote:Might be fun if they find a planet full of powerful "biotics" and a continent called Thedas though...

by Eryri Tue Feb 03, 2015 7:03 pm

Yeah, maybe that's a bit too nerdy, even for me. Besides, we wouldn't want Mac to be able to ruin both franchises.

by jojon2se Tue Feb 03, 2015 9:56 pm

I'm not opposed to a change of pace.

The Reapers' "Crucible" trap has snapped shut, one way or the other, and while they proceed with the mopping up phase of our cycle, the shattered remains of galactic civilization, as we know it, lie low.

We still need some way to deal with the Reapers, and we are at this point unlikely to find and develop it in known space.
...soo, finding a way to one of those other branches of the relay network (which may interweave with ours, without actually making contact, all across the galaxy) would seem a near-to-hand path to travel.

I don't think it necessarily has to mean only ruins and pre-spaceflight civilizations, either; No reason the Reapers couldn't sow different furrows of crops, expected to ripen in shifts, to take an allegory and run with it -- some could be nearing the time when they can no longer be allowed to go unculled, and they may be good candidates to pool research with, possibly while trying to not draw the attention of a solitary Reaper in Sovereign's monitor/cultivator role.

by Raistlin Majere Wed Feb 04, 2015 5:21 pm

jojon2se wrote: I'm not opposed to a change of pace.

The Reapers' "Crucible" trap has snapped shut, one way or the other, and while they proceed with the mopping up phase of our cycle, the shattered remains of galactic civilization, as we know it, lie low.

We still need some way to deal with the Reapers, and we are at this point unlikely to find and develop it in known space.
...soo, finding a way to one of those other branches of the relay network (which may interweave with ours, without actually making contact, all across the galaxy) would seem a near-to-hand path to travel.

I don't think it necessarily has to mean only ruins and pre-spaceflight civilizations, either; No reason the Reapers couldn't sow different furrows of crops, expected to ripen in shifts, to take an allegory and run with it -- some could be nearing the time when they can no longer be allowed to go unculled, and they may be good candidates to pool research with, possibly while trying to not draw the attention of a solitary Reaper in Sovereign's monitor/cultivator role.

Problem with that is that once the Reapers have the Citadel, which they do, it is likely only a matter of time before they shut down the entire relay network as they have in past cycles. Sure the Prothean sabotage stopped the initial attempt, but I wonder how long that will hold up once the Reapers get around to figuring out what went wrong.

It would raise some serious questions if they did not at least attempt to do this since it seems to be one of the key factors in every single harvest.

by jojon2se Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:50 pm

Raistlin Majere wrote:Problem with that is that once the Reapers have the Citadel, which they do, it is likely only a matter of time before they shut down the entire relay network as they have in past cycles.
...

Well, our subnet, yes.
Potential others, they may wish to remain functional, possibly even after discovering we slipped through -- heck, I could even imagine the Reaper on "the other side" spotting you, but making it personal, for some reason, and not reporting in (they are not alack for pride, these ones). :P

EDIT: Not, mind you, that the question "why are they not logging all relay traffic?", doesn't rear its head, anew -- Up 'til this point, that is easily explained by them doing it, but leading us on and feigning ignorance; For continued "rebel" use, a new explanation may be needed. :7

by ZerebusPrime Wed Feb 04, 2015 7:51 pm

I have the impression that the Citadel is the master switch for the Milky Way Galaxy network. I have no proof for this aside from its general location in the Widow Nebula, which turns out to not mean much when the Reapers go and move the darn thing to Earth.

Anyway, if I were building networks of relays, I'd place a separate Citadel-like structure in each galaxy. And then if I were to place galaxy to galaxy relays, I'd stick them in dangerous, hard to reach places like the galactic core or out in dark space.

by Rankincountry Wed Feb 04, 2015 8:58 pm

ZerebusPrime wrote:I have the impression that the Citadel is the master switch for the Milky Way Galaxy network. I have no proof for this aside from its general location in the Widow Nebula, which turns out to not mean much when the Reapers go and move the darn thing to Earth.

Anyway, if I were building networks of relays, I'd place a separate Citadel-like structure in each galaxy. And then if I were to place galaxy to galaxy relays, I'd stick them in dangerous, hard to reach places like the galactic core or out in dark space.

I think with the Citadel the location is part of the trap, being such a conveniently located place to put a galactic government. There's lots of in-game evidence that it weakly indoctrinates or at least pacifies anyone who stays on it for a long time. If it also doubles as a reaper factory, then it makes sense to move it to where the most reaper ingredients are. I would speculate that afterwards, it could be relocated again - the reapers would know which non-spacefaring species are most likely to form the next cycle and would site it accordingly to make sure it was found.

On your second point, even if Shepard destroys the Collector base, Cerberus capture Omega to use it to get to the core via the Omega 4 Relay. TIM commits a huge amount of resources to do so, which makes me wonder what else they might have found there - Shepard didn't exactly have time for a thorough search.

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