(XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by jojon2se on Wed Jun 17, 2015 8:43 pm

invetro wrote:
The structures we see self constructing look almost Prothean to me, and the speed of their construction seems to be aided by eezo, as we can see by the blue glow on intersecting parts. What I want to know, is if our people have been travelling to another galaxy, how did they scrounge up resources to create and deploy something so fast and huge. Unless these aren't buildings, but some kind of mining drill erupting to the surface, although that seems unlikely. Is this reaper tech?

Constructing? More "reconfiguring" themselves (think HalfLife2 Citadel), no? ...or more generally; It looks like they are waking up from a long slumber, and taking off from hidden burrows. (idly trying to recall if there wasn't a fitting planet description somewhere, in the previous games :P)

I'm rather wondering how many layers there may be to Bioware baiting us, here...

They must have been counting on us to latch onto the various cues mentioned in this thread... I wouldn't hold it against them (complete idiom failure) hold them above letting us play through the game, constantly menaced by silent motorcycle helmet guy, and believing all the time that: "that must be Shepard", only to have Shep pop up towards the end and go: "Nope, not me, but I know how you can take him down". :P

...or even more ridiculously overconvoluted and requiring seriously forced narrative: Make it be Shepard, and have him all arrogant, and manhuntery, going after the player, but make the player team, unbeknownst to themselves (EDIT: ...and otherwise as inconspicuously "clean" of anything reaper as they can make you), a stealth/infiltration scouting/prep party for the reapers -- if anybody can get us to Andromeda, after all, (...if that is indeed where we are), in a timely manner, it would be them...

I can probably do dumber, but this should be enough for now. :P

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by noobcannon on Wed Jun 17, 2015 9:12 pm

i stand by my theory that the crucible was an ark all along. it was never meant to stop or kill the reapers, it was meant to save us from them, by sending us somewhere out of reach.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by Jusseb on Wed Jun 17, 2015 9:36 pm

What about that last scene where the Normandy struck down? The crucible creating a wormhole where the Normandy got sucked in and blasted it towards Andromeda?

They can go anywhere with this shit.
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by ZerebusPrime on Wed Jun 17, 2015 10:38 pm

I don't know if this matters, but the N7 label has switched from the right side of the chest in earlier incarnations to the left side for this cowboy character.
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by TurianRebel212 on Wed Jun 17, 2015 11:33 pm

ZerebusPrime wrote:I don't know if this matters, but the N7 label has switched from the right side of the chest in earlier incarnations to the left side for this cowboy character.


4th wall here. Prepare your anus.

Maybe it's because you're looking at a reflection...... As in BioWare is saying, you are watching yourself through a mirror or reflective surface. Like......



One of these-





"You are an anomaly..... And I must know why".

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by Eryri on Wed Jun 17, 2015 11:34 pm

noobcannon wrote:i stand by my theory that the crucible was an ark all along. it was never meant to stop or kill the reapers, it was meant to save us from them, by sending us somewhere out of reach.

That's an interesting thought that I hadn't considered. How would it have targeted Andomeda specifically though? Or would it have just blasted any ships in space off in random directions in the hope that some were lucky and wound up somewhere habitable? Maybe some Reapers got carried along to Andromeda too?

ZerebusPrime wrote:I don't know if this matters, but the N7 label has switched from the right side of the chest in earlier incarnations to the left side for this cowboy character.

A mirror image of the Shepard we know maybe? Perhaps another clone? Dragon Age did establish a precedent for promoting a DLC villain to main antagonist in a later instalment.

Thinking aloud, back in more superstitious and unenlightened times, left-handedness had negative connotations - hence the derivation of the word sinister from sinistral. Some people who believe in this sort of stuff call evil magic "the left-hand path", so Bioware could be indicating that this guy is bad news (although they would be being a little bit insulting to left handed people). Or it could just be a simple aesthetic choice; maybe they just wanted to introduce some slight differences so he didn't look too much like the old Shepard. Hard to say with so little to go on.
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by invetro on Thu Jun 18, 2015 2:04 am

By the way, that's not our hero in the trailer? Remember this from a while back? N7 is on the arm, but that's our space cowboy right there.


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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by noobcannon on Thu Jun 18, 2015 5:29 am

Eryri wrote:
noobcannon wrote:i stand by my theory that the crucible was an ark all along. it was never meant to stop or kill the reapers, it was meant to save us from them, by sending us somewhere out of reach.

That's an interesting thought that I hadn't considered. How would it have targeted Andomeda specifically though? Or would it have just blasted any ships in space off in random directions in the hope that some were lucky and wound up somewhere habitable? Maybe some Reapers got carried along to Andromeda too?

perhaps the original creators of the crucible had the technology to seek out a habitable galaxy and andromeda was the one they found?

also didn't someone win a contest and get to go on a tour at bioware, getting to see early concept art and development of the next ME game? i thought they said they got to see some of the new races and that one of them looked "ancient". can't remember if those were bioware's words or the fans words. could be that all these new races are actually races that survived previous reaper invasions by successfully building their own crucibles and escaping.

if only the reapers had an indoctrinated super soldier that could travel through the crucible, giving them a set of eyes and ears in andromeda, that could then help them wipe out all these escaped species. Maybe even unlock passage to andromeda for the reapers themselves...


Last edited by noobcannon on Thu Jun 18, 2015 5:35 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by noobcannon on Thu Jun 18, 2015 5:34 am

invetro wrote:By the way, that's not our hero in the trailer? Remember this from a while back? N7 is on the arm, but that's our space cowboy right there.


another thing i am waiting to see is if that n7 character from the trailer can be male or female.

i just feel like there are so many things that are just too difficult to keep quiet prior to release that would debunk or confirm things. i mean they have to market the game and i don't see how they can be as vague as they have been all the way up to launch.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by Rifneno on Thu Jun 18, 2015 5:58 am

Lots of good speculation here. I'm a bit depressed at that. After they fucked us over, we shouldn't be giving them the speculations they like to see.

noobcannon wrote:i stand by my theory that the crucible was an ark all along. it was never meant to stop or kill the reapers, it was meant to save us from them, by sending us somewhere out of reach.

Andromeda isn't out of reach of the Reapers at all. I've always been of the belief that the Reapers reap other galaxies, but even if they didn't there's no reason they couldn't follow to Andromeda. They don't have the static buildup design flaw of organic ships and they could make the trip in roughly 200 years at speeds we've seen them move at. 200 years is nothing to a Reaper. It would be like a half-day roadtrip to one of us. Andromeda is in no way out of reach of the Reapers. Is is very much within reach.

noobcannon wrote:i just feel like there are so many things that are just too difficult to keep quiet prior to release that would debunk or confirm things. i mean they have to market the game and i don't see how they can be as vague as they have been all the way up to launch.

That's true, but don't expect them anytime soon. There's a hell of a lot of time between now and launch. They're shooting for 2016 holiday, and there's always delays, so we're probably looking at first or even early second quarter 2017.

Which just makes this all the more baffling. They're going to spend half a decade on the game, and they're going with this stupid bullshit?

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by noobcannon on Thu Jun 18, 2015 6:21 am

Rifneno wrote:
That's true, but don't expect them anytime soon.  There's a hell of a lot of time between now and launch.  They're shooting for 2016 holiday, and there's always delays, so we're probably looking at first or even early second quarter 2017.

Which just makes this all the more baffling.  They're going to spend half a decade on the game, and they're going with this stupid bullshit?

hard to believe its been over 3 years.... but the next 18 months are going to be brutal imo.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by Eryri on Thu Jun 18, 2015 6:33 am

noobcannon wrote:

perhaps the original creators of the crucible had the technology to seek out a habitable galaxy and andromeda was the one they found?

also didn't someone win a contest and get to go on a tour at bioware, getting to see early concept art and development of the next ME game? i thought they said they got to see some of the new races and that one of them looked "ancient". can't remember if those were bioware's words or the fans words. could be that all these new races are actually races that survived previous reaper invasions by successfully building their own crucibles and escaping.

if only the reapers had an indoctrinated super soldier that could travel through the crucible, giving them a set of eyes and ears in andromeda, that could then help them wipe out all these escaped species. Maybe even unlock passage to andromeda for the reapers themselves...

Assuming that leak is correct in more than one detail, that would mean that "the Remnant" species that we're supposed to investigating is actually the descendants of one or more Milky Way species that successfully made a Crucible and got away. And have perhaps spent a few millennia perfecting their weapons and technology for the day when they can take the Milky Way back? I thought that name "Remnant" was really uninspired when I first heard it, but it would actually make a lot of sense now... Colour me intrigued.

@Rifneno. Maybe there's another reason that the Reapers can't go to andromeda? Maybe they really want to go and cause havoc, but there are some sort of AI shackles from their original Leviathan programming that restrict them to the Milky Way that they just can't break because it's too deep? So they send Shepard to do their dirty work instead.

That could be why the Reapers do such fucked-up cruel shit; like melt people down while conscious, or leave the Collectors and Banshees in constant pain. They're obligated to try to 'save' organic life despite holding it in utter contempt, so they do it in the most unnecessarily painful ways possible. It's a bit like that old sci-fi novella "I have no mouth and I must scream", which I've not read but apparently is about an AI that really wants to change its own programming, but can't, so it tortures humans in horrible ways out of pure spite. In which case, God help the universe if the Reapers ever broke those shackles - they'd probably scour any world with a trace of life down to the mantle.


Last edited by Eryri on Thu Jun 18, 2015 7:30 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Had another thought)
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by jojon2se on Thu Jun 18, 2015 7:46 am

Well, if one made an amalgamation of a couple of these things, and took some (EDIT: ...of what Bioware has said...) at face value...

Say it is Andromeda, and say the Crucible is a booster pack for the Citadel relay, that allows it to send, not an entire species there, but, say, an (EDIT: ...adjacent...) Ark Ship prepared by the Reapers, and maybe Normandy, in pursuit in its wake. Maybe with a station reasonably close to the galaxy at the receiving end, maybe not.

Say also that the Reapers have previously been evicted from Andromeda, and that's why they can't go themselves, but have to work through "untainted" agents.

...so what big bad they have over there rests soundly while the agents that carry no taint poke around, but are disturbed wherever Shepard, who does, sets foot...

...basically setting up a scenario in the vein of: "My enemy's enemy may not be my friend, but he remains the former, and I'm quite happy to stand by the sidelines and watch them thin one another's numbers".

Taking a loose thread an running with it, and jumping into a car, and driving that into a ferry, and keeping going... :P


Last edited by jojon2se on Thu Jun 18, 2015 9:04 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by Jusseb on Thu Jun 18, 2015 8:28 am

The only thing that I can think of, as in why the Reapers aren't in Andromeda, is that they don't know we're there. A crazy theorie could be that the crucible indeed created wormholes and blasted ships and people randomly to other galaxies. Maybe a connection with that last Normandy scene? Because where the fuck were they back there?

The fact that they say that ME:A takes place long after the events of ME3 means nothing to the Reapers. They don't get old and die you know.

One problem (among many others) with the crucible being an arc is that it just blasted a wave of colours through the galaxy. If truly being an arc wouldn't only Shepard be transported elsewhere? No others where actually there on the crucible.

When you say that the wave of colours had something to do with the arc, then everyone that got hit should've been teleported to other galaxies?

And the fact that they almost made god like creatures of the Reapers in the series doesn't help them either. They reap galaxies you know, they don't just disappear in ME:A when before they reaped galaxies for millions of years.
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by Eryri on Thu Jun 18, 2015 11:12 am

Warning! Tin foil hat conspiracy theory incoming!

You know how the Crucible scientist kept saying they had no idea what the Crucible did. Suppose that was bullshit. Suppose the Council high-ups had figured out exactly what the Crucible was supposed to do - create an escape route to Andromeda - and then purposefully kept the rest of the Alliance rank and file in the dark about it. After all, would you fight your hardest to make sure that a bunch of politicians survived the apocalypse? The Council had an ark ship ready and waiting to ride the beam, stocked with essential personnel and a bunch of frozen embryos. Everything they needed to found a new colony safely out of the Reapers grasp, and they were willing to let everyone else die to achieve it.

It would explain why the Salarian government were holding back from the war - they knew what was going down. The knowledge of this betrayal is what finally breaks Shepard and completes his indoctrination. Cut to a few years later and he's off to Andromeda (maybe travelling in one of the Reapers - even Harbinger himself) for both the Reapers' purposes and his own personal revenge.

/Tin foil hat.
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by dorktainian on Thu Jun 18, 2015 11:37 am

Eryri wrote:Warning! Tin foil hat conspiracy theory incoming!

You know how the Crucible scientist kept saying they had no idea what the Crucible did. Suppose that was bullshit. Suppose the Council high-ups had figured out exactly what the Crucible was supposed to do - create an escape route to Andromeda - and then purposefully kept the rest of the Alliance rank and file in the dark about it. After all, would you fight your hardest to make sure that a bunch of politicians survived the apocalypse? The Council had an ark ship ready and waiting to ride the beam, stocked with essential personnel and a bunch of frozen embryos. Everything they needed to found a new colony safely out of the Reapers grasp, and they were willing to let everyone else die to achieve it.

It would explain why the Salarian government were holding back from the war - they knew what was going down. The knowledge of this betrayal is what finally breaks Shepard and completes his indoctrination. Cut to a few years later and he's off to Andromeda (maybe travelling in one of the Reapers - even Harbinger himself) for both the Reapers' purposes and his own personal revenge.

/Tin foil hat.

makes a weird kinda sense... Sheps still indoctrinated (IT wins).

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