Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

by TurianRebel212 Fri Mar 13, 2015 1:28 pm

Okay, and.... That matters why??? I mean, it's not real.... Remember? Guys, this is like the core tenement of IT, lol.

Everything after Harbingers beam is in the dreamscape. The only thing that is legit is that N7 alive/breathe scene. That is the only scene, after Harby's beam of luv nukes shep, that is real. That's it.

Shepard is buried under some rubble in London by the VauxHall Station (X marks the spot, lol)

London Calling!

by dorktainian Fri Mar 13, 2015 1:41 pm

TurianRebel212 wrote:Okay, and.... That matters why??? I mean, it's not real.... Remember? Guys, this is like the core tenement of IT, lol.

Everything after Harbingers beam is in the dreamscape. The only thing that is legit is that N7 alive/breathe scene. That is the only scene, after Harby's beam of luv nukes shep, that is real. That's it.

Shepard is buried under some rubble in London by the VauxHall Station (X marks the spot, lol)

London Calling!

yes we know........

(XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV! - Page 19 Mass_effect_3__the_indoctrination_theory_by_nukid101-d4toni0

but they left us speculatin....

by dorktainian Fri Mar 13, 2015 1:50 pm

heres an oldie but goldie from smoking otter...

by smokingotter on Tue 8 Jan 2013 - 6:28

First IT related post, I guess I'll get this ***** started!

Ok so I posted this awhile ago but it didn't gain too much traction but notice how the beam changes in regards to your choice. It dries up in refuse, shuts down in destroy, maintains in control, and gets really large in synthesis.
Refuse

Destroy(snip)

Control(snip)

Synthesis (snip)

If the decision chamber is an overlay of reality like I thought than is the beam getting larger in the real world? More evidence IMO that the decision chamber is not happening in the real world, nor in an overlay but is just symbolism of Shepard's last moments before getting hit by Harbinger. Also feeling confident that the beam is an analogy to reaper influence on Shepard.

Is the crucible symbolic of shepard's mental state? Maybe thats the point? He chooses his path. Destroy the reapers, become a reaper, or condemn everyone to synthesis. I would also throw into the equation that this raises the distinct possibility that Squiddy is in some way involved in offering shepard the choice. Rather than Starjar being a reaper, it could be a Leviathan.... oh wait. Harbinger used to be a leviathan...ergo it's harbinger...

by Rifneno Fri Mar 13, 2015 2:17 pm

dorktainian wrote:

Dork's explosion gif wins because it features a parrot, the greatest of life forms.

We should stop calling it "refuse" and call it what it is: surrender.

by dorktainian Fri Mar 13, 2015 2:25 pm

dorktainian wrote:heres an oldie but goldie from smoking otter...

by smokingotter on Tue 8 Jan 2013 - 6:28

First IT related post, I guess I'll get this ***** started!

Ok so I posted this awhile ago but it didn't gain too much traction but notice how the beam changes in regards to your choice. It dries up in refuse, shuts down in destroy, maintains in control, and gets really large in synthesis.
Refuse

Destroy(snip)

Control(snip)

Synthesis (snip)

If the decision chamber is an overlay of reality like I thought than is the beam getting larger in the real world? More evidence IMO that the decision chamber is not happening in the real world, nor in an overlay but is just symbolism of Shepard's last moments before getting hit by Harbinger. Also feeling confident that the beam is an analogy to reaper influence on Shepard.

Is the crucible symbolic of shepard's mental state? Maybe thats the point? He chooses his path. Destroy the reapers, become a reaper, or surrender and condemn everyone to synthesis. I would also throw into the equation that this raises the distinct possibility that Squiddy is in some way involved in offering shepard the choice. Rather than Starjar being a reaper, it could be a Leviathan.... oh wait. Harbinger used to be a leviathan...ergo it's harbinger...

changed it Rif. It is surrender to choose synthesis.

by ZerebusPrime Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:23 pm

TurianRebel212 wrote:Are we goona post some explosion gifs now???

Well then.

This.... Is just the beginning!

Ok. I must know. What is that from?

by **DoomsdayDevice** Sat Mar 14, 2015 12:30 am

Rifneno wrote:Dork's explosion gif wins because it features a parrot, the greatest of life forms.

It's not a parrot, it's a parakeet.

by Hanako Ikezawa Sat Mar 14, 2015 12:41 am

DoomsdayDevice wrote:
Rifneno wrote:Dork's explosion gif wins because it features a parrot, the greatest of life forms.

It's not a parrot, it's a parakeet.

Parakeets are a type of parrot.

by noobcannon Sat Mar 14, 2015 5:38 am

ZerebusPrime wrote:
TurianRebel212 wrote:Are we goona post some explosion gifs now???

Well then.

This.... Is just the beginning!

Ok. I must know. What is that from?

cruel intentions

by noobcannon Sat Mar 14, 2015 5:40 am

smash016 wrote:Lol who is that guy?

by Rifneno Sat Mar 14, 2015 7:00 am

DoomsdayDevice wrote:
Rifneno wrote:Dork's explosion gif wins because it features a parrot, the greatest of life forms.

It's not a parrot, it's a parakeet.

"That's not a dog, it's a golden lab."

Actually, it's a budgerigar, which is a type parakeet, which is a type of parrot, which is a type of bird. Budgies are a sad case. You know all those pretty colors they come in? Nature didn't make them like that. Humans purposely inbred them and warped their genes to get those color mutations. They look a little prettier, but their DNA has been through hell. A budgie with purely wild parentage can live an average of 20 years. A budgie whose parentage has been perverted by humans will, on average, succumb to one of the many cancers they're extremely prone to by age 4. Although it may be a mercy because most people have this fool notion that a parrot is a decoration to be kept in a cage.

Parrots are kind of my thing. And a topic hard to get to me to shut up on, so I'll stop now.

by TurianRebel212 Sat Mar 14, 2015 7:09 am

Rif, I for one...... Would like to know more about parrot's.

by Terramine Sat Mar 14, 2015 10:27 am

Oh my fucking god. The fact that people can try and say Refuse is Surrender just goes to show how illogical y'all are altogether. It'd be one thing if you stuck with the few good arguments you have.

But when you're blatantly lying about the opposition, then it just goes to show how weak your arguments really are.

by TurianRebel212 Sat Mar 14, 2015 11:55 am

Terramine wrote:Oh my fucking god. The fact that people can try and say Refuse is Surrender just goes to show how illogical y'all are altogether. It'd be one thing if you stuck with the few good arguments you have.

But when you're blatantly lying about the opposition, then it just goes to show how weak your arguments really are.

(XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV! - Page 19 Gif-4

by **DoomsdayDevice** Sat Mar 14, 2015 12:40 pm

I knew they were bred for colour, but I wasn't aware parakeets were a type of parrot. Sorry!

by smash016 Sat Mar 14, 2015 6:02 pm

A

noobcannon wrote:
smash016 wrote:Lol who is that guy?

Sort of hoped it was a genuine nutcase. Still, funny.

Interesting twists in this thread lately...

by Rifneno Sat Mar 14, 2015 9:58 pm

TurianRebel212 wrote:Rif, I for one...... Would like to know more about parrot's.

License to ramble!

TurianRebel212 wrote:
Terramine wrote:Oh my fucking god. The fact that people can try and say Refuse is Surrender just goes to show how illogical y'all are altogether. It'd be one thing if you stuck with the few good arguments you have.

But when you're blatantly lying about the opposition, then it just goes to show how weak your arguments really are.

Wow. Thanks for quoting that. I've got Frenchie there on ignore so I would've missed that awesome whine.

"I'm not going to use this weapon on you because reasons! We're gonna die, but we're gonna die with our integrity or dignity or some shit! Go ahead and kill us!" A high and mighty surrender is still a surrender.

DoomsdayDevice wrote:I knew they were bred for colour, but I wasn't aware parakeets were a type of parrot. Sorry!

Easy way to tell is the beak. The most distinguishing feature of parrots is their bills, known as a hookbill. A good look at one.

(XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV! - Page 19 Hyacinth-macaw-portrait

(XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV! - Page 19 Hyacinth-macaw-portrait

Easy to see why it's called a hookbill. All parrots have a hookbill, and as far as I'm aware it's exclusive to them. Predatory birds have a bit of a hook on the end of their bill to tear flesh with, but it's not a true hookbill because it's only curved at the end rather than the entire way.

The bills of large parrots are incredibly powerful because they're made to open some very tough nuts. The species in that picture, a hyacinth macaw, can crack open nuts that humans typically use a sledgehammer to open.

by OneWithTheAssassins Sun Mar 15, 2015 1:23 am

Rifneno wrote:
TurianRebel212 wrote:Rif, I for one...... Would like to know more about parrot's.

License to ramble!

TurianRebel212 wrote:
Terramine wrote:Oh my fucking god. The fact that people can try and say Refuse is Surrender just goes to show how illogical y'all are altogether. It'd be one thing if you stuck with the few good arguments you have.

But when you're blatantly lying about the opposition, then it just goes to show how weak your arguments really are.

Wow. Thanks for quoting that. I've got Frenchie there on ignore so I would've missed that awesome whine.

"I'm not going to use this weapon on you because reasons! We're gonna die, but we're gonna die with our integrity or dignity or some shit! Go ahead and kill us!" A high and mighty surrender is still a surrender.

DoomsdayDevice wrote:I knew they were bred for colour, but I wasn't aware parakeets were a type of parrot. Sorry!

Easy way to tell is the beak. The most distinguishing feature of parrots is their bills, known as a hookbill. A good look at one.

Easy to see why it's called a hookbill. All parrots have a hookbill, and as far as I'm aware it's exclusive to them. Predatory birds have a bit of a hook on the end of their bill to tear flesh with, but it's not a true hookbill because it's only curved at the end rather than the entire way.

The bills of large parrots are incredibly powerful because they're made to open some very tough nuts. The species in that picture, a hyacinth macaw, can crack open nuts that humans typically use a sledgehammer to open.

There tongues look like gross fingers. I strangely like that.

by TurianRebel212 Sun Mar 15, 2015 6:44 am

Hey Rif,do parrots have great eye sight like Birds of Prey do?

by Terramine Sun Mar 15, 2015 10:56 am

Rifneno wrote:
TurianRebel212 wrote:
Terramine wrote:Oh my fucking god. The fact that people can try and say Refuse is Surrender just goes to show how illogical y'all are altogether. It'd be one thing if you stuck with the few good arguments you have.

But when you're blatantly lying about the opposition, then it just goes to show how weak your arguments really are.

Wow. Thanks for quoting that. I've got Frenchie there on ignore so I would've missed that awesome whine.

"I'm not going to use this weapon on you because reasons! We're gonna die, but we're gonna die with our integrity or dignity or some shit! Go ahead and kill us!" A high and mighty surrender is still a surrender.

HMM GEEE, SHOOTING THE BIG BAD DIRECTLY SURE DOES = We're gonna die, but we're gonna die with our integrity or dignity or some shit! Go ahead and kill us!

YEPYEPYEP, MHM MHHHHHHMMMMMMM FUCKING FUCK YES. DAMN STRAIGHT NIGGUH IT TOTALLY ISN'T EVEN MORE IN LINE WITH SHEPARD'S RESOLVE AT ALL. NAH, LETS JUST ADHERE TO THE DEVIL'S TERMS, LET'S SIGN THAT CONTRACT BECAUSE HE'LL TOTES LET YOU DESTROY HIM AS LONG AS YOU AGREE TO HIS TERMS, AND USE HIS FUCKING WEAPON TO DO IT HERPDERP.

Woah... wait a minute. clearly rif is right, here's the verbal refuse. clearly he is a fuckin valor paragon of tru----- NO, FUCK YOU. IT'S NOT ABOUT DIGNITY.

SHEPARD SAYS AN I QUOTE "AND /IF/ I DIE, I'LL DIE KNOWING I DID /EVERYTHING/ I COULD TO STOP YOU. AND I'LL DIE /FREE/." IN A MIND BATTLE WHERE THE REAPERS HAVE THE EDGE, BECAUSE SHEPARD IS BEING FUCKING INDOCTRINATED... AKA MIND ENSLAVED. FREEDOM IS WHAT MATTERS YOU FUCKING JACKASS.

I'm sick and tired of this bullshit, you all blatantly lie and misrepresent the Refuse ending and all blatantly hold a BIAS against the fucking thing. Like, Indoctrination Theory is supposed to be about well founded theorizing Logical and substantial claims. But that goes out the window in this discussion always. It goes out the window as y'all grasp at straws. Restrider has outright asserted, long ago, that y'all are biased and you still never listened. i was still oh so irrational even though Restrider's conclusions are usually pretty fucking /flawless/.

But you know what's the most ridiculous of all? That Rifneno believes the Crucible is 100% a Reaper trap and is NO GOOD PERIOD. But the Destroy choice, which is a fucking PART OF THE CRUCIBLE. JUST MAGICALLY IS EXEMPT FROM THIS. HIS HYPOCRISY IS EQUAL TO TAKING SYNTEHSIS AT FACE VALUE. IT'S JUST AS MAGICAL AND ABSURD AS BELIEVING SYNTHESIS FUCKING WORKS.

THAT MOMENT WHEN WE ALL REACHED THE ENDING AND SAW THE MAGICAL FUCKING BEAMZ, WE ALL WERE JUST SITTING THERE FUCKDAZZLED BECAUSE WE KNEW THAT SHIT WAS BLASPHEMY TO THE ME TRILOGY. BUT NAH, JUST AS MAGICALLY, THE CRUCIBLE IS 100% A TRAP... BUT IT'S STILL THE RIGHT CHOICE. USING IT IS STILL THE RIGHT CHOICE. DESTROY IS EXEMPT, DESPITE BEING PART OF THAT 100%.

by Terramine Sun Mar 15, 2015 11:08 am

"TIM could never control us because we already controlled him" - Catalyst
"Shepard could never Destroy us, because we already controlled him" - Catalyst

You are allowing them to have even the slightest modicum of control over Shepard, in Destroy. By adhering to their terms. This is irrefutable. So you have factually been indoctrinated.

It's SELF DEFEATING. By agreeing to their terms, you have already surrendered. DESTROY is surrendering to their terms.

by Terramine Sun Mar 15, 2015 11:14 am

LOOK AT THE FUCKING NAME YOU FUCKING RETARDS. REFUSE. AKA NEVER GIVE IN. REJECT. REJECT THE REAPERS AND INDOCTRINATION. REJECT THEIR TERMS, REJECT THE BULLSHIT. TO STARE THEM IN THE FACE AND BE WILLING TO DIE FIGHTING.

THE NARRATIVE DID NOT SELL US DESTROY. YOU'RE ALL LIARS IN THAT REGARD.

THE NARRATIVE WAS TALKING ABOUT REFUSE. TO NEVER BUDGE. TO NEVER BOW DOWN TO THEM. Don't give in to their bullshit just because things look desperate. Don't sell your soul to them.

Hold The MOTHERFUCKING Line

by dorktainian Sun Mar 15, 2015 12:46 pm

hehe.....

by Raistlin Majere Sun Mar 15, 2015 1:57 pm

Terramine:

Or if we follow that train of thought:

Refusal to make the hard choice, refusal to sacrifice even if it is needed, rejecting the reality you stand in to instead hold on to your morals even as the world crumbles around you.

"We will fight, we will sacrifice and we will find a way. That's is what humans do!" Shepard, Arrival Ending.

Javik: "Do not waver. Victory is never won without difficult choices."

Garrus: "If just one survivor is left standing at the end of the war, then the fight was worth it. But humans want to save everyone. In this war, that's not going to happen."

Shepard: "Making hard decisions and dealing with the consequences--that's what being a leader is about."

Javik: "You still have hope that this war will end with your honour intact."
Shepard: "I do."
Javik: "Stand in the ashes of a trillion dead souls, and ask the ghosts if honour matters. The silence is your answer."
Shepard: *blank stare*

-*Thanks to DoomsdayDevice for compilling these*-

Shepard has not always had to sacrifice, though there are few times where it was necesary, but he or she has always had to be ready to sacrifice. You can ace the Collector Base Assault, but that does not mean everyone there, Shepard in paticular, knew that sacrifices would probably be necesary.

And this is drilled into your head throughout ME3. This is not a war that can be won without losses, without sacrifice and many people do sacrifice themselves, people we knew and there is no way to save them. To think you can win without sacrifice is to bury your head in the sand and refusing to listen.

Even if the endings are not really happening, Destroy and Refuse can still be seen as the two sides of that problem, Destroy beeing the Shepard ready to make the hard call, even if it means sacrifices, sticking to the words he uttered him/herself back in Arrival.

Refuse on the other hand just strikes me as a Shepard who refuses to make that hard choice in the end, who sprouts alot of nice sounding words, but in the end they are just words and Shepard is left alone, unmoving, standing around in the darkness.

Because this war wont be won on nice intentions, hell without a miracle it is already lost and a lot of pretty words wont bring about that miracle. Not to say Destroy is that miracle either, but at least that Shepard is doing something, trying to win the day instead of standing around.

All that beeing said I do consider Refuse at least the second best choice and one which chance of recovery, as it is still defiance, but its is defiance without action or the will to go all the way. It can be salvaged, but it does not take that breath, it does not wake up immediately.

Edit: To add a bit further, Shepard stops making the tough calls in the EC, during the assinine extraction scene. Shepard sends his entire crew and squad away to protect them during the critical moment of the entire battle, the same squad he has led on several missions and some of them were there during the Suicide Mission in ME2.

Yet here he refuses to put them in danger, sending them off instead of and they accept it. It is wildly out of character on both sides.

by dorktainian Sun Mar 15, 2015 5:00 pm

I always assumed the choices were played out in shepards mind... if that's the case why pick anything but destroy - the only proactive option on the table?

for shepard to survive you must choose destroy. it's the only chance he has of making it out of the rubble.

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