(XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by clennon8 on Tue Jun 16, 2015 10:13 am

Jusseb wrote:That trailer did tell us exactly what I thought it would do, nothing.

The fact that they mentioned that the person we see is not really the main protagonist throws us back at where we were. They really like torturing us, probably a hobby of them by now.

It could've been me, but when I watched that trailer, seeing that N7 tag in center of screen. I felt a glimmer of Shepard right there.

I really wonder how they'll put that Andromeda "here we are" thing of. Everyone was in the middle of the Reaper War by the end of ME3. All resources where going towards the crucible. There's no way that we were secretly developing another "special thing" to get us all out. They probably are going to do something with that crucible, mark my words. That space magic blasted us to Andromeda.

I think it's entirely possible there was a parallel project to build the ark ship while the Crucible was being constructed.  And if they could hide the Crucible, they could hide an ark ship.  There's plenty of nebulae out there.  And if they were using some sort of next-gen FTL drive (Reaper tech, perhaps) and had a fuckton of eezo and fuel on that ship, it's conceivable they could simply have traversed the void between galaxies over the course of centuries, while most of the crew slept in stasis pods (Prothean tech!).  

Or they may have found some freak wormhole.
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by Rifneno on Tue Jun 16, 2015 11:07 am

clennon8 wrote:Wow, you really do seem unbalanced, Rif.  Yes, I am an IT guy.  I got kicked off motherfucking BSN because I wouldn't stop bringing it up, so that oughta be worth something.  And yet I'm willing to wait and judge the new game on its own merits instead of tying my hopes, dreams, aspirations, ego, happiness and mental well-being to the feeble hope that they're gonna give us a big "reveal" and bring back Shepard, or whatever other delusion you may be harboring.

And, yeah, while you were calling the obviously plausible and evidentially-supported Andromeda/ark theory rumor "retarded," I was saying there was probably something to it.  That must really suck for you, smart guy.

I didn't say I was particularly smart. I said you're a fucking idiot. There's a significant difference, although I understand if you can't grasp that.

You want to talk sad mental health? You pathetic cunt, look at you, you're the only one here ignoring the actual revelation to talk about himself. So desperate to be 'right' about something, seeking approval like a mangy dog. You may be the most pathetic idiot I've seen on this topic, and that includes troglodytes like heretic hanar. Do the world a favor.



Ark theory still IS retarded. The fact that BW is going to piss away the lore and make some dudebro nonsense with Mass Effect's label only means that the next game is going to be retarded, not that Ark Theory isn't retarded.

Speaking of which, Ark Theory has been around for a long time. It started as a joke about how BW could get away from dealing with the endings, and everyone had a "lol, that's so absurd they'll probably do it" reaction until it grew into a popular theory. Anyone (by which I mean you specifically) that thinks a random anonymous post on reddit is legitimate evidence of, well, anything, is probably the same sort of jackass that thinks 9/11 was an inside job because their bar for "believable evidence" is non-existent.

Oh, I was wrong alright - I was wrong about thinking Bioware hadn't really abandoned any sense of quality storytelling. The people I owe an "I was wrong, you were right" to are the people that have been bitching about "bioderp" and "supermac" that I've been telling we haven't lost all hope. Not you. You're just some a dickless blind squirrel who found a nut. The writing's been on the wall there. They gave us Deception, they gave us Citadel (complete with ghost Thane!), they gave us comics that constantly contradicted lore and previous events with such "subtle" errors as Sovereign's corpse being completely in-tact outside the Citadel, they hired a lead writer who just got done destroying Halo, they've done everything possible to piss on Mass Effect as a franchise that takes its lore and storytelling seriously. Everything since ME3 (and counting Deception, slightly before) has been unforgivably bad.

I held out hope because the games have always been the core, and I didn't think they'd defile the core. I was wrong. There is no more hope. Whether they gave up after the ending backlash or when Karpyshyn left or whatever, I don't know. All I know is that at some point they gave up on Mass Effect as a serious sci-fi. If you don't have the pattern recognition to realize this game is going to the same nonsense place as everything else they've given us in recent years, you're even dumber than I thought. I have no idea how your tiny, mutated brain is producing enough energy to keep your vital organs functioning. It is truly a medical mystery.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by Raistlin Majere on Tue Jun 16, 2015 11:22 am

It is a sad day, to see such potential for greatness squandered and a giant of storytelling laid low.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by Jusseb on Tue Jun 16, 2015 11:34 am

Did I already say that I hate the cheezy name? My god.
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by symbowles on Tue Jun 16, 2015 12:17 pm

I hate how these Bioware people say things like "there's a lot of clues in that trailer, have fun". Wtf. You've given us nothing for over three years. Three years they've left us in the dark, and they still want to play these stupid 'mind games' with us.

They are literally about to go with "We were put in stasis and sent to Andromeda. We've awoken and are unable to contact mission base. We have no idea how they fared against the reapers." The mother of all cop-outs.

This is sickening.


Last edited by symbowles on Tue Jun 16, 2015 3:19 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by WeAreHarbinger on Tue Jun 16, 2015 12:20 pm

Nothing about the trailer apart from the brief music at the end (ME theme) and the n7 logo made it feel anything like Mass Effect, which was what i feared would happen.
I'll wait around and see what they throw at us next year, maybe e3 2016 will give us more info but as of right now..what little interest i had in the next game got burned.

I think what pissed me the most and this is from my own view is the fact that this seems geared completely towards a new audience. I'm not stupid, i knew that there would be a lot of that but idk... i thought there would be a little for the loyal fans of the previous trilogy...you know, the ones who invested money and effort to make your game a AAA title..

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by dorktainian on Tue Jun 16, 2015 12:33 pm

WeAreHarbinger wrote:Nothing about the trailer apart from the brief music at the end (ME theme) and the n7 logo made it feel anything like Mass Effect, which was what i feared would happen.
I'll wait around and see what they throw at us next year, maybe e3 2016 will give us more info but as of right now..what little interest i had in the next game got burned.

I think what pissed me the most and this is from my own view is the fact that this seems geared completely towards a new audience. I'm not stupid, i knew that there would be a lot of that but idk... i thought there would be a little for the loyal fans of the previous trilogy...you know, the ones who invested money and effort to make your game a AAA title..

It's EA guys. They don't give a flying fuck for anything that isn't called MONEY.

also... that post above from Rif is just totally epic.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by Rifneno on Tue Jun 16, 2015 12:58 pm

symbowles wrote:I hate how these Bioware people say things like "there's a lot of clues in that trailer, have fun". Wtf. You've given us nothing for over three years. Three years they've left us in the dark, and they still want to play these stupid 'mind games' with us.

They are literally about to go with "We were put in stasis and sent to Andromeda. We've awoken to and are unable to contact mission base. We have no idea how they faired against the reapers." The mother of all cop-outs.

This is sickening.

QFT. It really is sickening. I've never had more disgust for my fellow man than when I found out there's lots of hype for this drivel outside of the IT forum.

dorktainian wrote:It's EA guys.  They don't give a flying fuck for anything that isn't called MONEY.

also... that post above from Rif is just totally epic.  

It is? I almost deleted it. Considering the series has just been pulled off life support, it seems a bad time to be flaming with some attention seeking twat. Seems like we should be, I don't know, making funeral arrangements or something.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by symbowles on Tue Jun 16, 2015 1:25 pm

Jusseb wrote:Did I already say that I hate the cheezy name? My god.

"We're pleased to announce Mass Effect Andromeda!"


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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by dorktainian on Tue Jun 16, 2015 1:49 pm

symbowles wrote:
Jusseb wrote:Did I already say that I hate the cheezy name? My god.

"We're pleased to announce Mass Effect Andromeda!"



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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by ZerebusPrime on Tue Jun 16, 2015 2:12 pm

Eryri wrote:
ZerebusPrime wrote:N7 as a bad guy?  Reaperized Shepard equipped with TitanFall!JumpPack backed by an EDI!bot and a mutated Krogan?  The people they're fighting are actually human colonist!refugees?


I see no basis for that speculation.


EDIT: You know, aside from it being a ghost rider riding after the Reapers' runaway cattle.  But no Shepard would wear a handkerchief like that.

EDIT: Or how this N7 character flips through various planet feeds looking for one that can sustain human life (the one with the floating rocks has too much toxic eezo), finds a suitable planet, and then immediately pulls a gun and goes to check it out.

Exactly. The guy looks more like a conqueror than an explorer. Not exactly heroic.

Oh God. I think I might actually be getting excited for this. Damn you Bioware, why can't I quit you?! Angry Fistwave

I don't know about getting excited, but I do get a "something's off" vibe from that trailer.  It could just be the "What the **** did Hudson-Walters do to the story?!?!" factor on account of this not fitting in well with the Blade Runner meets Babylon 5 feel of the original trilogy.  Or it could be that the trailer is intentionally focused on the wrong character.

At this stage I'd optimistically rate the chances of a "good" outcome for this game, IT-wise, at about 10%.  Realistically, it's probably more like 2%.  The events of the Milky Way in ME3 would have to follow the player to Andromeda in-game, and I don't mean "Did the Milky Way just turn... green?"  A reaperfied Shepard hunting down Reaper War refugees would indicate that the ending of ME3 was false and everything we saw was a Reaper lie; at this point I'd accept that.

Ten percent.  Pardon my rambling and yes, I do have a track record of denial in the face of disappointment.  So maybe two percent.


Anyway, the creatures the "old cowboy" is fighting near the 1:29 mark have canine legs (ex: geth, turians, quarians, krogan).  As I step closer to the 1:30 mark they almost look like armored Geth, but since there are no flashlights on their heads I have to assume it's someone else.  The trailer cuts away just as one is starting to come into full view.

The pistol used by the "cowboy" appears to match a Carnifex, also known as the pistol Shepard would use in ME3 whenever he did something evil.  You can get a very good look at it at the 1:03 mark.


EDIT: I'm not the only one trying to tear apart this trailer, am I?
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by Maximus on Tue Jun 16, 2015 2:35 pm

just lurking...

ZerebusPrime wrote:I don't know about getting excited, but I do get a "something's off" vibe from that trailer.
Levels of 'MEH' in this trailer are way off the effin' charts!  Sleep
I'm NOT entertained...  Sideways


Dr JaMiN wrote:Anyway, I noticed some of you mention Ark theory. Could someone give me a brief recap of what this entails?

Yup! Here ya go, pal! ;>

just lurking...

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by dorktainian on Tue Jun 16, 2015 3:11 pm

So the trailer features another trench run.... great. rub it in.


When does it become scientifically possible to look at a star map, point at a point on it, then become instantly transported to that point....

(oh wait.. Galaxy map)

Did I see a Prothean?

God damn you Bioware.


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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by Jusseb on Tue Jun 16, 2015 3:32 pm

Seeking out that "Andromeda" name in Mythology actually talks about she being saved by Persues from a giant seamonster.

Giant seamonsters...didn't we see them before?
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by noobcannon on Tue Jun 16, 2015 4:14 pm

noobcannon wrote:so what if the crucible had been successfully built before, and all it did was send the remaining organics of that cycle to another galaxy, far away from the reapers?......

edit: which is where the normandy was (jungle planet) at the end of me3.

edit: and the reapers send their new indoctrinated super shepard to that galaxy to hunt them down.

edit: and if shepard chose destroy at the end of me3 theres a chance of him breaking the indoctrination.

edit: because he's "the chosen one"



"Ghost Riders In The Sky"

An old cowboy went ridin out one dark and windy day
Upon a ridge he rested as he went along his way
When all at once a mighty herd of red-eyed cows he saw
Plowin through the ragid skies and up a cloudy draw

Their brands were still on fire and their hooves were made of steel
Their horns were black and shiny and their hot breath he could feel
A bolt of fear went through him as they thundered through the sky
For he saw the riders comin hard and he heard their mournful cries

Yippie i ohhh ohh ohh
Yippie i aye ye ye
Ghost riders in the sky

Their faces gaunt, their eyes were blurred
Their shirts all soaked with sweat
He's ridin hard to catch that herd
But he aint caught em yet
Cause they got to ride forever in that range up in the sky
On horses snortin fire as they ride on hear their cries

As the riders loped on by him he heard one call his name
'if you wanna save your soul from hell a-ridin on our range
Then cowboy change your ways today or with us you will ride
Tryin to catch the devil's herd across these endless skies

Yippie i ohhh oh oh
Yippie i aye ye ye
Ghost riders in the sky
Ghost riders in the sky
Ghost riders in the sky

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by TurianRebel212 on Tue Jun 16, 2015 5:33 pm

There is a Reaper growl in the trailer. It's almost identical to the growl from the vent in ME3s intro

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by Guest on Tue Jun 16, 2015 5:56 pm

First post, but I'm a long time lurker both here and on the old IT threads on the Bioware forums.

The move to Andromeda is disappointing as hell. All that lore thrown out the window.

I just hope that N7 guy turns out to be Shepard, because I don't see other options for us IT-ers. I take it that's not the main character though? He does not seem like an explorer to me, this guy is hunting something. Or someone. There's just something off about him, the way he walks towards the camera with his Carnifex. This could be a hint to the 2010 vga trailer where Shepard did the same thing (without the gun though).

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by noobcannon on Tue Jun 16, 2015 6:06 pm

Mike_87 wrote:First post, but I'm a long time lurker both here and on the old IT threads on the Bioware forums.

The move to Andromeda is disappointing as hell. All that lore thrown out the window.

I just hope that N7 guy turns out to be Shepard, because I don't see other options for us IT-ers.  I take it that's not the main character though? He does not seem like an explorer to me, this guy is hunting something. Or someone. There's just something off about him, the way he walks towards the camera with his Carnifex. This could be a hint to the 2010 vga trailer where Shepard did the same thing (without the gun though).

bioware confirming that the n7 character is not our new male/female character is huge imo

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by dorktainian on Tue Jun 16, 2015 6:25 pm

noobcannon wrote:
Mike_87 wrote:First post, but I'm a long time lurker both here and on the old IT threads on the Bioware forums.

The move to Andromeda is disappointing as hell. All that lore thrown out the window.

I just hope that N7 guy turns out to be Shepard, because I don't see other options for us IT-ers.  I take it that's not the main character though? He does not seem like an explorer to me, this guy is hunting something. Or someone. There's just something off about him, the way he walks towards the camera with his Carnifex. This could be a hint to the 2010 vga trailer where Shepard did the same thing (without the gun though).

bioware confirming that the n7 character is not our new male/female character is huge imo
 and the trailer shows him, along with others rushing towards something....almost like the beam run, but not quite.... no london tho.  squadmates beside the N7 who shall remain nameless...(cough....Shepard....cough)

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by DoomsdayDevice on Tue Jun 16, 2015 6:47 pm

Crazy brain fart that I don't even dare to believe in:

Maybe they're still pulling the wool over our eyes, and we'll be playing as Shepard after all. And not in the far future. And we'll be going after the Reapers. And they're not in dark space, but in Andromeda. Because that's just a more interesting place.

I mean if not, and we have to take this seriously, well then it's just a fucking monumental cop-out.


Last edited by DoomsdayDevice on Tue Jun 16, 2015 6:55 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by noobcannon on Tue Jun 16, 2015 6:49 pm

dorktainian wrote:
noobcannon wrote:
Mike_87 wrote:First post, but I'm a long time lurker both here and on the old IT threads on the Bioware forums.

The move to Andromeda is disappointing as hell. All that lore thrown out the window.

I just hope that N7 guy turns out to be Shepard, because I don't see other options for us IT-ers.  I take it that's not the main character though? He does not seem like an explorer to me, this guy is hunting something. Or someone. There's just something off about him, the way he walks towards the camera with his Carnifex. This could be a hint to the 2010 vga trailer where Shepard did the same thing (without the gun though).

bioware confirming that the n7 character is not our new male/female character is huge imo
 and the trailer shows him, along with others rushing towards something....almost like the beam run, but not quite.... no london tho.  squadmates beside the N7 who shall remain nameless...(cough....Shepard....cough)









Last edited by noobcannon on Tue Jun 16, 2015 6:55 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by Eryri on Tue Jun 16, 2015 6:52 pm

^My thoughts exactly. That segment is almost a shot for shot remake of the Major Coates trailer for ME3. If they are trying to make me forget about Shepard they are doing a lousy, lousy job.
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by DoomsdayDevice on Tue Jun 16, 2015 6:56 pm

IKR? You just can't help thinking about Shepard, seeing that trailer.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by Eryri on Tue Jun 16, 2015 7:20 pm

ZerebusPrime wrote:

At this stage I'd optimistically rate the chances of a "good" outcome for this game, IT-wise, at about 10%.  Realistically, it's probably more like 2%.  The events of the Milky Way in ME3 would have to follow the player to Andromeda in-game, and I don't mean "Did the Milky Way just turn... green?"  A reaperfied Shepard hunting down Reaper War refugees would indicate that the ending of ME3 was false and everything we saw was a Reaper lie; at this point I'd accept that.

Ten percent.  Pardon my rambling and yes, I do have a track record of denial in the face of disappointment.  So maybe two percent.

Don't worry, I'm about to do some rambling of my own. I'm usually a glass-half-empty sort of person, but at this point I'd actually rate it a bit higher than that. Somewhere around 40% maybe? Mainly because this dude is confirmed to not be the protagonist. Again, trying to keep hype levels in check. Even if it is revealed to be Shepard this game still isn't guaranteed to handle things well, or be any good, so I'll be waiting for spoiler-ridden user reviews and / or price drops before I invest.



The pistol used by the "cowboy" appears to match a Carnifex, also known as the pistol Shepard would use in ME3 whenever he did something evil.  You can get a very good look at it at the 1:03 mark.


Well spotted. Contrast this with the Teaser for ME3 when Shepard was coming to save Earth, but had no weapon at all, and particularly not "the executioner".

Mike_87 wrote:  I take it that's not the main character though? He does not seem like an explorer to me, this guy is hunting something. Or someone. There's just something off about him, the way he walks towards the camera with his Carnifex. This could be a hint to the 2010 vga trailer where Shepard did the same thing (without the gun though).

It's definitely not the player character, at least not according to Aaron Flynn at Bioware. http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2015-06-15-mass-effect-andromeda-announced

And agreed, there's something off about this guy. He's supposed to be an explorer looking for a nice peaceful home for humanity, yet he goes to meet his new neighbors with a gun like some 19th century imperialist? Who would want to play as someone like that?

noobcannon wrote:
bioware confirming that the n7 character is not our new male/female character is huge imo

Agreed. For a start, he's an active N7 soldier, yet he's deciding where the ship goes, and going down to the planet itself. Aside from Shepard, the boss isn't supposed to go on away-missions in case he gets killed. Plus, he's deciding where to go by flicking through his options as casually as if he's picking carpet samples - "Hmm, where shall I rain down death and destruction today?" This guy is used to being in absolute charge.

Then, outside the trailer, you have to wonder why Bioware put so much focus on a character who isn't the PC in the E3 trailer of all things.  What could be the reasons for including him in such a high profile position? -
1. This character might be the PC's commanding officer / Mentor - the new Anderson. Unless he's someone we know that's a fairly dull possibility, and not really worth focusing on in such a big event.
2. This character could be a squadmate - perhaps James Vega. I liked James but that feeling isn't universal in the fanbase - bit of a let down.
3. This character is the second most important in the story after the PC.
a. He could be the human MacGuffin they're trying to find for some reason. Maybe, as Turian suggested, they need to find Shepard to finish the war against the Reapers.
b.Or he's the antagonist. There are several options for who such an antagonist, who would feel comfortable in N7 armor, might be - a random renegade N7 (yawn), Shepard's Clone (Meh), Kai Leng ( Synthesis! ), Conrad Verner ( :EDI: ) or, an indoctrinated Shepard.

Sorry for the essay - I've probably been mulling this stuff over far too much.

TLDR either that guy is Shepard, or that trailer was the lamest, most ill-conceived cop-out in bioware' history.


Last edited by Eryri on Tue Jun 16, 2015 9:42 pm; edited 8 times in total
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Eryri
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by noobcannon on Tue Jun 16, 2015 7:57 pm

Eryri wrote:

Sorry for the essay - I've probably been mulling this stuff over far too much.

he's an old cowboy tryin' to track down the reapers' heard.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

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