(XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!
by Maximus Tue Aug 11, 2015 12:59 am
SwobyJ wrote:The other thing is the Directive 7 flashpoint. Machines gone rogue, led by, you guessed it, an overlord (called Mentor).
Anywayyy.. IT.
Ayy, lmao!
Mentor
Hell... that whole, effin' flashpoint is like divin' into one of the Seival's wet dreams!
You have green
Green eyes/photoreceptors indicating that the
Machine that produces 'evil' cyborg-clones of your group's characters...
'
It screams and shouts 'SYNTHESIS' each step of the way...
Edit: Great, I top'd dis thread with Synth-cake...
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!
by TurianRebel212 Tue Aug 11, 2015 3:21 am
Seival...... Now that is a name I've not heard in a long time. Long time.
You won't find more scum and villainy in all the Galaxy of BSN than Seival.
You won't find more scum and villainy in all the Galaxy of BSN than Seival.
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!
by Rifneno Tue Aug 11, 2015 7:32 am
SwobyJ wrote:no homo
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!
by dorktainian Tue Aug 11, 2015 12:14 pm
TurianRebel212 wrote:Haha, love you to bro.
And remember..... Sith happens.
Just ask the Jedi..... One day you're top dog and all powerful and top advisors of the republic....
Then the next your living on some swamp planet or some uber hot desert plannet, while all your pals are being target practice for live fire exercises....
All because....
Sith Happens.
but.. but.. but.. midichlorians..
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!
by ZerebusPrime Fri Aug 14, 2015 1:34 pm
And we're back on topic!
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!
by Maximus Fri Aug 14, 2015 1:53 pm
ZerebusPrime wrote:
And we're back on topic!
#1 #Nohomo
It's fabulous, so fabulous! I wanna do it again! Come on baby! It's fabulous, so fabulous!
#2 HA! Fusion!
His biotics levels are OVEEERRRRRRRRRR 9000!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
#3 Rainbows and Unicorns!
Friends with 'benefits'!
Am I doin' this right? D:
Hey, it's still better than ME3's endings, EC or not! D:
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!
by Rifneno Mon Aug 17, 2015 5:49 am
Looking back at ME3 videos, it's just striking how many hints and themes there are pointing the player toward destroy.
Javik: Stand in the ashes of a trillion dead souls and ask the ghosts if honor matters.
*pauses*
Javik: That silence is your answer.
Shepard: Lieutenant!
Lt. Victus: Victory... at any cost.
*Victus sacrifices himself to stop the bomb*
Hell, even in the earlier installments.
Shepard: What do the Reapers get out of this? Why do they keep repeating this pattern of genocide over and over?
Vigil: The Reapers are alien. Unknowable. Perhaps they need slaves or resources. More likely, they are driven by motives and goals organic beings cannot hope to comprehend. In the end, what does it matter? Your survival depends on stopping them, not in understanding them.
How the fuck did people get through this series and end up going "Hurr, hurr, jump in teh beam!"? Did these impossibly stupid fucks read Moby Dick and go, "Man, that whale is an ASSHOLE"?
Javik: Stand in the ashes of a trillion dead souls and ask the ghosts if honor matters.
*pauses*
Javik: That silence is your answer.
Shepard: Lieutenant!
Lt. Victus: Victory... at any cost.
*Victus sacrifices himself to stop the bomb*
Hell, even in the earlier installments.
Shepard: What do the Reapers get out of this? Why do they keep repeating this pattern of genocide over and over?
Vigil: The Reapers are alien. Unknowable. Perhaps they need slaves or resources. More likely, they are driven by motives and goals organic beings cannot hope to comprehend. In the end, what does it matter? Your survival depends on stopping them, not in understanding them.
How the fuck did people get through this series and end up going "Hurr, hurr, jump in teh beam!"? Did these impossibly stupid fucks read Moby Dick and go, "Man, that whale is an ASSHOLE"?
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!
by dorktainian Mon Aug 17, 2015 7:34 am
Rifneno wrote: Your survival depends on stopping them, not in understanding them.
and that Vigil quote sums it all up for me. Shepard wasn't in this to make friends with the reapers and gain understanding of them. (control and synthesis) his mandate, his only mandate was to destroy the reapers by any means necessary.
Who in their right minds would make friends with them? Fucktards that's who.
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!
by Rifneno Mon Aug 17, 2015 8:35 am
dorktainian wrote:Rifneno wrote: Your survival depends on stopping them, not in understanding them.
and that Vigil quote sums it all up for me. Shepard wasn't in this to make friends with the reapers and gain understanding of them. (control and synthesis) his mandate, his only mandate was to destroy the reapers by any means necessary.
Who in their right minds would make friends with them? Fucktards that's who.
Agreed. That Vigil line knocks it out of the park. The Reapers were always a Lovecraftian horror, and when we look at some of the baseline rules of Lovecraftian horror, we see this line: Unanswered questions. Characters in Lovecraft's stories rarely if ever fully understand what is happening to them, and often go insane if they try. That really spells it out. If you let the Reapers get into your head and try to understand them, it will cost you your sanity.
They even foreshadow this on Rannoch. If pick the neutral option, trying to understand the Reaper, it "wins" the conversation. If you pick either the paragon or renegade options, which both amount to "I'm here to kick ass and chew bubble gum," Shepard "wins" the conversation.
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!
by vlad78 Mon Aug 17, 2015 12:00 pm
Rifneno wrote:Looking back at ME3 videos, it's just striking how many hints and themes there are pointing the player toward destroy.
Javik: Stand in the ashes of a trillion dead souls and ask the ghosts if honor matters.
*pauses*
Javik: That silence is your answer.
Shepard: Lieutenant!
Lt. Victus: Victory... at any cost.
*Victus sacrifices himself to stop the bomb*
Hell, even in the earlier installments.
Shepard: What do the Reapers get out of this? Why do they keep repeating this pattern of genocide over and over?
Vigil: The Reapers are alien. Unknowable. Perhaps they need slaves or resources. More likely, they are driven by motives and goals organic beings cannot hope to comprehend. In the end, what does it matter? Your survival depends on stopping them, not in understanding them.
How the fuck did people get through this series and end up going "Hurr, hurr, jump in teh beam!"? Did these impossibly stupid fucks read Moby Dick and go, "Man, that whale is an ASSHOLE"?
Because the ending was exactly what it needed to be. A total mindfuck.
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!
by ZerebusPrime Mon Aug 17, 2015 1:43 pm
Rifneno wrote:Looking back at ME3 videos, it's just striking how many hints and themes there are pointing the player toward destroy.
Javik: Stand in the ashes of a trillion dead souls and ask the ghosts if honor matters.
*pauses*
Javik: That silence is your answer.
Shepard: Lieutenant!
Lt. Victus: Victory... at any cost.
*Victus sacrifices himself to stop the bomb*
Hell, even in the earlier installments.
Shepard: What do the Reapers get out of this? Why do they keep repeating this pattern of genocide over and over?
Vigil: The Reapers are alien. Unknowable. Perhaps they need slaves or resources. More likely, they are driven by motives and goals organic beings cannot hope to comprehend. In the end, what does it matter? Your survival depends on stopping them, not in understanding them.
How the fuck did people get through this series and end up going "Hurr, hurr, jump in teh beam!"? Did these impossibly stupid fucks read Moby Dick and go, "Man, that whale is an ASSHOLE"?
What gets me is how whenever I would tell someone that knowing to choose Destroy and recognizing the other options as delusional was a simple matter of paying attention to the narrative, I'd almost always get a "how dare you judge me" response and get accused of sophistry in the least polite terms possible.
I do not understand the majority of the fanbase.
The game really does spell it out a million different ways:
"Catalyst, Reapers, Crucible... you'll never understand. We don't want to be preserved!"
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!
by Rifneno Mon Aug 17, 2015 2:00 pm
vlad78 wrote:Because the ending was exactly what it needed to be. A total mindfuck.
That only excuses a foolish decision in the moment. After a thorough analysis of things, which we've done dozens of times over, the facts are clear. It's not like there's any solid support for control and synthesis. They both appear in the series symbolically, and they always fail in fucking spectacular fashion.
ZerebusPrime wrote:Rifneno wrote:Looking back at ME3 videos, it's just striking how many hints and themes there are pointing the player toward destroy.
Javik: Stand in the ashes of a trillion dead souls and ask the ghosts if honor matters.
*pauses*
Javik: That silence is your answer.
Shepard: Lieutenant!
Lt. Victus: Victory... at any cost.
*Victus sacrifices himself to stop the bomb*
Hell, even in the earlier installments.
Shepard: What do the Reapers get out of this? Why do they keep repeating this pattern of genocide over and over?
Vigil: The Reapers are alien. Unknowable. Perhaps they need slaves or resources. More likely, they are driven by motives and goals organic beings cannot hope to comprehend. In the end, what does it matter? Your survival depends on stopping them, not in understanding them.
How the fuck did people get through this series and end up going "Hurr, hurr, jump in teh beam!"? Did these impossibly stupid fucks read Moby Dick and go, "Man, that whale is an ASSHOLE"?
What gets me is how whenever I would tell someone that knowing to choose Destroy and recognizing the other options as delusional was a simple matter of paying attention to the narrative, I'd almost always get a "how dare you judge me" response and get accused of sophistry in the least polite terms possible.
I do not understand the majority of the fanbase.
It's part our current society's fault and part BW's fault. Both for doing the same thing: assuring everyone they're all perfect little snowflakes and their views, no matter how retarded, are totally valid and worthy of respect.
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!
by DoomsdayDevice Mon Aug 17, 2015 5:53 pm
One of the main arguments against IT is that it would violate the principle of choice in RPGs.
To that I say, well, you can still make stupid decisions if you want to.
To that I say, well, you can still make stupid decisions if you want to.
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!
by Rifneno Mon Aug 17, 2015 6:16 pm
DoomsdayDevice wrote:One of the main arguments against IT is that it would violate the principle of choice in RPGs.
To that I say, well, you can still make stupid decisions if you want to.
What the fuck? jRPGs are the most famous of video game RPGs (only behind Dungeons & Dragons as a tabletop game) and the closest thing you get to a choice in those what type of dress you want Lightning to wear while she's being a colossal bitch.
Or are we talking about a principle that all your possible choices are totally valid and there's no right and wrong? Because that harkens back to what I was saying: both society and game designers need to stop coddling special little snowflakes. There are very much right and wrong choices. Sometimes you can't reasonably tell a decision is right or wrong beforehand but that doesn't make it any less right or wrong. We are the result of 4 billion years of evolution brutally punishing the wrong paths. The real world doesn't give a fuck about your feelings when you take the wrong road, and we need to stop coddling this generation by telling them it does. Because reality is going to hit them in the face like a fucking shovel.
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!
by dorktainian Mon Aug 17, 2015 8:04 pm
spot on rif.
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!
by smash016 Mon Aug 17, 2015 8:54 pm
I'm watching this Judge Dredd remake right now and it's like Omega DLC all over the place. Or maybe they both feed on the same sci-fi blueprint, but damn, is Mass Effect memorable stylistically.
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!
by Rifneno Tue Aug 18, 2015 9:23 am
smash016 wrote:I'm watching this Judge Dredd remake right now and it's like Omega DLC all over the place. Or maybe they both feed on the same sci-fi blueprint, but damn, is Mass Effect memorable stylistically.
Speaking of other works of fiction with similarities, I was bored yesterday and wound up reading the plot of the latest Terminator movie. I figure I'm not going to bother actually watching it anyway, just like I didn't the last one, but it'll relieve 10 minutes of boredom.
MAJOR Genisys spoilers.
- Spoiler:
- Usually I'm strongly opposed to saying any random thing in other fiction is a Mass Effect or IT reference, but goddamn this was strong and I really wonder if it wasn't inspired by IT.
If you've never seen one of the movies, the main villain is Skynet, an artificial intelligence of the boring "all AI are teh evil" variety. As soon as it became self-aware, it got into the American nuclear launch systems and launched a massive volley of nuclear attacks against foreign targets, especially Russia. These countries naturally responded in kind before they realized it wasn't really Americans attacking. Then it builds a race of non-sentient murder-bots, "termintors", to wipe the surviving humans. The series generally revolves around the leader of the resistance against Skynet, John Connor, and Skynet sending terminators back in time to stop him from existing in the future. Yeah, it's a time travel story, one that liberally uses paradoxes. Just... bad writing, all round. But I digress.
In this movie, Skynet actually manages to get Connor. And he does something worse than killing him. He synthesizes him. Don't misunderstand, he doesn't just put some cybernetic parts in him, he uses nanites to rewrite his very genetic code into... something new. He's not man, he's not machine, he's something else entirely. Oh hey, and guess what? Like Starbrat, Skynet has "tried this before" but it "didn't work out."
And a big part of why I think this might have been inspired by IT, apart from the obvious, is that there is no redemption. This kind of plot isn't terrible unique. The villain captures the hero and converts him to his side. It rarely has so many eerie similarities to synthesis, but it's not terribly uncommon otherwise. However it always ends with somebody crying out, "I know you're still in there somewhere!" and the hero breaking the villain's control over him. That never happens. This atrocity is completely and utterly devoted to the machines trying to exterminate humanity. It ends with his destruction, not his redemption.
I can't help but think that the writers played ME3, read IT, and thought, "Wow, synthesisShepardConnor would be an awesome villain!"
Even if not, it carries so many of the same thematical messages. The Terminator series has been known for a lot of things, but thought-provoking writing isn't one of them. It's just an action movie where you watch robots beat the hell out of each other. But they still get it. How the fuck does anyone not? How do people honestly support synthesis?! Christ.
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!
by dorktainian Tue Aug 18, 2015 10:38 am
Who would work 'with' the reapers to help them accomplish 'their' goals? Only the indoctrinated.
So you choose Control or Synthesis 'you' have been indoctrinated. Forget Shepard he's just a character in a game, Bioware indoctrinated some of their player base.
I can see Bioware using shepard (or whats left of him) as an antagonist in the next game if you picked control or synthesis.
So you choose Control or Synthesis 'you' have been indoctrinated. Forget Shepard he's just a character in a game, Bioware indoctrinated some of their player base.
I can see Bioware using shepard (or whats left of him) as an antagonist in the next game if you picked control or synthesis.
Last edited by dorktainian on Tue Aug 18, 2015 2:27 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!
by Rifneno Tue Aug 18, 2015 11:01 am
dorktainian wrote:
I can see Bioware using shepard (or whats left of him) as an antagonist in the next game if you picked control or synthesis.
I thought that once too. ME:A Culpa.
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!
by DoomsdayDevice Tue Aug 18, 2015 6:14 pm
Rifneno wrote:ME:A Culpa.
Haha, nice.
ME:A maxima culpa!
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!
by Eryri Tue Aug 18, 2015 8:50 pm
Rifneno wrote:dorktainian wrote:
I can see Bioware using shepard (or whats left of him) as an antagonist in the next game if you picked control or synthesis.
I thought that once too. ME:A Culpa.
There can't be many gaming forums where you can expect Latin puns. Seriously Rif, if you're not already a professional writer, you should definitely think about becoming one. Your posts are always so entertaining.So apparently Chris Wynn responded to a question about any familiar faces being in Andromeda with "it wouldn't make much sense, story wise".
https://mobile.twitter.com/The1Wynn/status/630874991131820032
So that has rather pissed on the last dying embers of my enthusiasm. Although it's not a clear "No" it is very close to one. A disappointing and, frankly, unfathomable decision imho.
Not that it matters now but, going back to the idea of Shepard being an antagonist, I did think of one more reason why Bioware might have moved the story to Andromeda. To hide the identity of the villain. They didn't come right out with the fact that a certain returning character was the villain in the trailers for DA:Inquisition, as it would have been a major spoiler for the dramatic reveal at the end of the first act. So, if they had a trailer set in the Milky-Way, and there were still Reapers running amok, everyone would know that the Crucible had failed. Therefore, Shepard probably had been indoctrinated, and it would naturally follow that he would be the villain.
Seems academic now though, of course.
Last edited by Eryri on Tue Aug 18, 2015 9:04 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!
by ericformans_sisterisdead Tue Aug 18, 2015 9:03 pm
https://mobile.twitter.com/The1Wynn/status/633259010888704001
Thats the convo that dipshit wynn nd i had. What bothers me is the sheep that think this is okay
Thats the convo that dipshit wynn nd i had. What bothers me is the sheep that think this is okay
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!
by ZerebusPrime Thu Aug 20, 2015 4:29 am
One doesn't shake off indoctrination; there is no cure. One merely delays it or resists it. The damage is permanent. After the things we saw at the end of ME3, I cannot see Shepard rising from the rubble as his/her old self.
If he/she shows up in the next game, it'd have to be as a completely different person. :P
If he/she shows up in the next game, it'd have to be as a completely different person. :P
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!
by dorktainian Thu Aug 20, 2015 9:45 am
An old Shepard went ridin out one dark and windy day
Upon a ridge he rested as he went along his way
When all at once a mighty herd of red-eyed machines he saw
Plowin through the ragid skies and up a cloudy draw
Their hearts were still on fire and their hooves were made of steel
Their horns were black and shiny and their hot breath he could feel
Indoctrination went through him as they thundered through the sky
For he saw the Reapers comin hard and he heard their awful cries
Yippie i ohhh ohh ohh
Yippie i aye ye ye
Damn Reapers in the sky
His face gaunt, his eyes were blurred
his skin all soaked with sweat
He's ridin hard to catch them now
But he aint caught em yet
Cause they got to ride forever in that range up in the sky
Machines snortin fire as they ride on hear their cries
As the Reapers loped on by him he heard one call his name
'if you wanna save your soul from hell a-ridin on our range
Then Shepard change your ways today or with us you will ride
Tryin to catch the squiddies across these endless skies
Yippie i ohhh oh oh
Yippie i aye ye ye
Damn Reapers in the sky
Damn Reapers in the sky
Damn Reapers in the sky
Upon a ridge he rested as he went along his way
When all at once a mighty herd of red-eyed machines he saw
Plowin through the ragid skies and up a cloudy draw
Their hearts were still on fire and their hooves were made of steel
Their horns were black and shiny and their hot breath he could feel
Indoctrination went through him as they thundered through the sky
For he saw the Reapers comin hard and he heard their awful cries
Yippie i ohhh ohh ohh
Yippie i aye ye ye
Damn Reapers in the sky
His face gaunt, his eyes were blurred
his skin all soaked with sweat
He's ridin hard to catch them now
But he aint caught em yet
Cause they got to ride forever in that range up in the sky
Machines snortin fire as they ride on hear their cries
As the Reapers loped on by him he heard one call his name
'if you wanna save your soul from hell a-ridin on our range
Then Shepard change your ways today or with us you will ride
Tryin to catch the squiddies across these endless skies
Yippie i ohhh oh oh
Yippie i aye ye ye
Damn Reapers in the sky
Damn Reapers in the sky
Damn Reapers in the sky
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!
by Maximus Thu Aug 20, 2015 11:12 am
dorktainian wrote:An old Shepard went ridin out one dark and windy day
Upon a ridge he rested as he went along his way
When all at once a mighty herd of red-eyed machines he saw
Plowin through the ragid skies and up a cloudy draw[...]
'Rogue Shepard' by Matt Rhodes
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