(XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Control be like

Oh so THAT'S the song that honey badger avatar is dancing along to...

Yeah, not much anticipation for N7 day. Just about none, to be honest.

Joker (@ Citadel party): "The real weapon is your brain. Take that away, and you got nothing."

I also like Ashley's reaction to Leviathan. She says she doesn't really care where the Reapers came from or why they do what they do. All that matters is that we kill them.

DoomsdayDevice wrote:Joker (@ Citadel party): "The real weapon is your brain. Take that away, and you got nothing."

I also like Ashley's reaction to Leviathan. She says she doesn't really care where the Reapers came from or why they do what they do. All that matters is that we kill them.

Right, exactly. The fact remains that the Reaper's methods are evil hands down. It doesn't matter what vast knowledge or how powerful their "collective intelligence" is. They clearly must have skipped out on something. Since they're an AI dominant hybrid, I'm inclined to believe they lack wisdom and co-operation in any healthy way. The Geth are an example of good AI. Being co-operative, trying to understand and accommodate the differences of other species, etc. As opposed to the Reapers, who can only see the inside of their own asses because they have their heads so far stuck up there. But then if the faux-Leviathans we dealt with are any semblance of a shadow of the true creators of the Reapers, it's no surprise the Reapers themselves are so fucked to be frankly honest.

But again, in the end, that's all the Leviathans are any more. They are now just the "catalyst" justification for the Reapers to do all this. The Reapers are an example of what not to do, in the end. They are definitely meant to be destroyed, but it is so because they are everything we shouldn't be.

Random MEA brainfart:

So, let's say something like Ark theory will actually happen (yeah yeah, I know...), and there will be a ship full of Milky Way exiles somehow ending up in Andromeda, I wouldn't be surprised if we found out we weren't the first species of our galaxy to "escape". It would explain why we saw what looked like Protheans in that trailer. Hell, there might even be Leviathans. We might even get there with Prothean technology. Though to be honest, that would make Ilos seem like a simple contingency plan in comparison, and kind of redundant maybe.

Pff, I still hate the whole idea.

2.5 million light years, people.

That's 2.5 million years at the speed of fucking light, which is 299.792,458 kilometres per second. That is an unfathomably large distance. Sure, it's "in the neighbourhood" compared to how vast the universe is, but it's still insane.

DoomsdayDevice wrote:Random MEA brainfart:

So, let's say something like Ark theory will actually happen (yeah yeah, I know...), and there will be a ship full of Milky Way exiles somehow ending up in Andromeda, I wouldn't be surprised if we found out we weren't the first species of our galaxy to "escape". It would explain why we saw what looked like Protheans in that trailer. Hell, there might even be Leviathans. We might even get there with Prothean technology. Though to be honest, that would make Ilos seem like a simple contingency plan in comparison, and kind of redundant maybe.

Pff, I still hate the whole idea.

2.5 million light years, people.

That's 2.5 million years at the speed of fucking light, which is 299.792,458 kilometres per second. That is an unfathomably large distance. Sure, it's "in the neighbourhood" compared to how vast the universe is, but it's still insane.

It's a viable path to take, but it definitely doesn't change that Bioware missed the chance to make a masterpiece. Sub-par is fine when it's the best you can do, but Bioware literally bent backwards for this sub-par path if they indeed are running with it.

From a business perspective, it makes sense. If things are getting too risky you can always back up and that will inevitably save your ass in the long haul. Even if it means Mass Effect dies... bioware lives... and they can learn from their mistakes and do better in the future. However, I'm not sure if Bioware is actually going to do that. We HAVE seen it with Dragon Age? Right? Dragon Age 1 rocked, 2 tanked, and 3 did better.

Again, I will have to have some hatred for Bioware for killing my favorite series of all time. Nevermind that I wasn't even a fan of the company itself. I didn't even know they existed until I played the Mass Effect trilogy in order with all the DLC. Which probably why I can take such non-biased position in the first place. But ultimately, they introduced me to Mass Effect and the experience was the best ride out of any media ever... and then they killed it all at the very end. So yeah, I can definitely say that they can go fuck themselves. But again, I still know that no matter how personally attached I am to something, there is a bigger picture.

Also as much as I can hate Bioware for that, it also taught me what NOT to do and has even inspired me to develop my own stories that DO pull off masterpiece quality. So in their failure, I become better. I can thank them for that at least.

DoomsdayDevice wrote:Random MEA brainfart:

So, let's say something like Ark theory will actually happen (yeah yeah, I know...), and there will be a ship full of Milky Way exiles somehow ending up in Andromeda, I wouldn't be surprised if we found out we weren't the first species of our galaxy to "escape". It would explain why we saw what looked like Protheans in that trailer. Hell, there might even be Leviathans. We might even get there with Prothean technology. Though to be honest, that would make Ilos seem like a simple contingency plan in comparison, and kind of redundant maybe.

Pff, I still hate the whole idea.

2.5 million light years, people.

That's 2.5 million years at the speed of fucking light, which is 299.792,458 kilometres per second. That is an unfathomably large distance. Sure, it's "in the neighbourhood" compared to how vast the universe is, but it's still insane.

"So we're going through this giant mass effect accelerator that will shoot our ships in the direction of the Andromeda Galaxy..."

"At a thousand times the speed of light!  With all the discharging done here on-station!"

"And so it's going to take how long...?"

"Oh for you it won't seem to take very long at all.  Maybe a month.  Your vessel's mass effect fields can only hold time dilation at bay to the extent necessary to keep your hull intact from the incredible shearing forces involved in passing through the technological equivalent of a black hole.  That's not really your problem, though."

"It's n.... wait, what's my problem, then?"

"Figuring out how to slow down and stop once you hit Andromeda.  Bon voyage!"




*cue "It's Spaceball One!" "She's gone to plaid!" sequence*

there was a program on the beeb a few years ago, which theorised faster than light travel between 2 points. this would however require an astonishing amount of power at both ends of the process. i seem to remember it being based on a similar premise of the QEC.

good point regarding slowing down. how the fuck? also...... andromeda? it's moving towards us on a collision course, would the travel involve being catapulted to a fixed point? this wouldn't work as andromeda is on the move. relays?

another phrase from spaceballs springs to mind.

it's gonna....."suck.........suck..........suck...........suck"

dorktainian wrote:there was a program on the beeb a few years ago, which theorised faster than light travel between 2 points.  this would however require an astonishing amount of power at both ends of the process.  i seem to remember it being based on a similar premise of the QEC.

good point regarding slowing down.  how the fuck?  also...... andromeda?  it's moving towards us on a collision course, would the travel involve being catapulted to a fixed point?  this wouldn't work as andromeda is on the move.  relays?  

another phrase from spaceballs springs to mind.

it's gonna....."suck.........suck..........suck...........suck"

Yeah it seems no matter how you try to rationalize your way out of it going to Andromeda in the Mass Effect universe will always open so many cans of worms in regards to how physics work in Mass Effect.

Traditionally, in the simplified rocket model you spend half the trip accelerating towards your target in outer space and half the trip decelerating in the opposite direction, hence the "We're only half way there; why are we turning around?" joke.

To be shot through an intergalactic mass relay gun in the direction of Andromeda at the speeds necessary to make the trip feasible (if you take too long, your ships will break down and fail even with constant maintenance sans dry dock and fresh resource supplies), you'd be left with the problem of decelerating rapidly enough not to miss your target in the last 2 to 5% or so of the distance traveled. This is why the mass relay system uses relay to relay travel: the first mass relay accelerates you to incredible FTL speeds, the second "catches" you and applies equal acceleration in the opposite direction.

Point to point mass-free corridors of space time indeed. It's still "shoot" and "catch". There's nothing in Andromeda to catch us.

ZerebusPrime wrote:Traditionally, in the simplified rocket model you spend half the trip accelerating towards your target in outer space and half the trip decelerating in the opposite direction, hence the "We're only half way there; why are we turning around?" joke.

To be shot through an intergalactic mass relay gun in the direction of Andromeda at the speeds necessary to make the trip feasible (if you take too long, your ships will break down and fail even with constant maintenance sans dry dock and fresh resource supplies), you'd be left with the problem of decelerating rapidly enough not to miss your target in the last 2 to 5% or so of the distance traveled.  This is why the mass relay system uses relay to relay travel: the first mass relay accelerates you to incredible FTL speeds, the second "catches" you and applies equal acceleration in the opposite direction.

Point to point mass-free corridors of space time indeed.  It's still "shoot" and "catch".  There's nothing in Andromeda to catch us.

2 possibilities: The Reapers built a relay to Andromeda, or the ship catches itself somehow.

Terramine wrote:

ZerebusPrime wrote:Traditionally, in the simplified rocket model you spend half the trip accelerating towards your target in outer space and half the trip decelerating in the opposite direction, hence the "We're only half way there; why are we turning around?" joke.

To be shot through an intergalactic mass relay gun in the direction of Andromeda at the speeds necessary to make the trip feasible (if you take too long, your ships will break down and fail even with constant maintenance sans dry dock and fresh resource supplies), you'd be left with the problem of decelerating rapidly enough not to miss your target in the last 2 to 5% or so of the distance traveled.  This is why the mass relay system uses relay to relay travel: the first mass relay accelerates you to incredible FTL speeds, the second "catches" you and applies equal acceleration in the opposite direction.

Point to point mass-free corridors of space time indeed.  It's still "shoot" and "catch".  There's nothing in Andromeda to catch us.

2 possibilities: The Reapers built a relay to Andromeda, or the ship catches itself somehow.

Not that they give even the tiniest fuck about lore anymore, but a relay to Andromeda would need an eezo core of absolutely WTF size.  Like, the size of a small star.

Rifneno wrote:

Terramine wrote:

ZerebusPrime wrote:Traditionally, in the simplified rocket model you spend half the trip accelerating towards your target in outer space and half the trip decelerating in the opposite direction, hence the "We're only half way there; why are we turning around?" joke.

To be shot through an intergalactic mass relay gun in the direction of Andromeda at the speeds necessary to make the trip feasible (if you take too long, your ships will break down and fail even with constant maintenance sans dry dock and fresh resource supplies), you'd be left with the problem of decelerating rapidly enough not to miss your target in the last 2 to 5% or so of the distance traveled.  This is why the mass relay system uses relay to relay travel: the first mass relay accelerates you to incredible FTL speeds, the second "catches" you and applies equal acceleration in the opposite direction.

Point to point mass-free corridors of space time indeed.  It's still "shoot" and "catch".  There's nothing in Andromeda to catch us.

2 possibilities: The Reapers built a relay to Andromeda, or the ship catches itself somehow.

Not that they give even the tiniest fuck about lore anymore, but a relay to Andromeda would need an eezo core of absolutely WTF size.  Like, the size of a small star.

Would that be WTF for the Reapers? I thought as far as Lore was concerned, the Reapers are all about being "above and beyond". Like yes they were supposed to be defeated regardless, but still. I've played this trilogy a trillion times, and I do not see what would be "wtf" about saying the Reapers had THAT? A sun sized eezo core? They're masters of the Mass Effect, it's their calling card.

Terramine wrote:

Rifneno wrote:

Terramine wrote:

ZerebusPrime wrote:Traditionally, in the simplified rocket model you spend half the trip accelerating towards your target in outer space and half the trip decelerating in the opposite direction, hence the "We're only half way there; why are we turning around?" joke.

To be shot through an intergalactic mass relay gun in the direction of Andromeda at the speeds necessary to make the trip feasible (if you take too long, your ships will break down and fail even with constant maintenance sans dry dock and fresh resource supplies), you'd be left with the problem of decelerating rapidly enough not to miss your target in the last 2 to 5% or so of the distance traveled.  This is why the mass relay system uses relay to relay travel: the first mass relay accelerates you to incredible FTL speeds, the second "catches" you and applies equal acceleration in the opposite direction.

Point to point mass-free corridors of space time indeed.  It's still "shoot" and "catch".  There's nothing in Andromeda to catch us.

2 possibilities: The Reapers built a relay to Andromeda, or the ship catches itself somehow.

Not that they give even the tiniest fuck about lore anymore, but a relay to Andromeda would need an eezo core of absolutely WTF size.  Like, the size of a small star.

Would that be WTF for the Reapers? I thought as far as Lore was concerned, the Reapers are all about being "above and beyond". Like yes they were supposed to be defeated regardless, but still. I've played this trilogy a trillion times, and I do not see what would be "wtf" about saying the Reapers had THAT? A sun sized eezo core? They're masters of the Mass Effect, it's their calling card.

Yes, I feel it would.  Harbinger was legitimately upset about losing one relay's worth of eezo.  What did they do as soon as they got control of Omega?  Started mining it for eezo at a rate that would burn out the drills in a month.  A minor thing, but Vigil also said once the Reapers were done murdering people, they ganked all their technology and resources. Which to me says "eezo."  The Reapers are definitely making a real effort to acquire more eezo and are upset when Shepard drives an asteroid into a relay and they have to replace it, so I find it hard to believe they have eezo growing out of their assholes.  At least enough to build a relay corridor 2.5 million light years long.  I mean, they'd also need an equally absurdly oversized relay on the other side, too.  So they don't need one pile of eezo the size of a small star, they need two piles of eezo the size of a small star and even the Reapers have their limits.

What would even be the point of it?  The Reapers use the relay network while they're here but it's not like they need it.  The relay network is mostly for organic use while the Reapers mold their civilization for the harvest.  If the Reapers needed to get to Andromeda, all they need do is fly there conventionally.  The limitations we have toward doing that aren't there for them.  The limitations are of course (a) the discharge problem that Reapers don't suffer from at all and (b) it'd take a longass time, more than most organic lives.  But the trip would be about 200 years at a Reaper's FTL speed and that's no big deal for a space monster that considers itself infinite and is a billion years old.  Even if they had the resources, the pros of building such a relay are vastly outweighed by the cons.  They save a little bit of time, something they have infinite of, and in exchange they lose vast resources and risk multiple galaxies teaming up on them if organics figure out how to trick the relay like they did the Omega 4 relay.

I hate to even suggest it.  It makes me ill.

But the Leviathans could have sought such a long distance space lane before the Reapers came along.  The tribute must flow.  Damn the expense.



I needn't explain the myriad ways that hurts me.

Of course, then the Reapers could just use it for themselves or dismantle it.  And I doubt any Ark Program colonists would be happy setting up colonies in another part of what they know is Reaper space. Or Leviathan space.

ZerebusPrime wrote:I hate to even suggest it.  It makes me ill.

But the Leviathans could have sought such a long distance space lane before the Reapers came along.  The tribute must flow.  Damn the expense.



I needn't explain the myriad ways that hurts me.

Of course, then the Reapers could just use it for themselves or dismantle it.  And I doubt any Ark Program colonists would be happy setting up colonies in another part of what they know is Reaper space.  Or Leviathan space.

They specifically said that they enthralled the galaxy.  Nothing was said about other galaxies.  IIRC, they showed us a picture of the Milky Way when discussing it too.

Even if the Leviathans (which I'm not convinced even fucking exist) did build pathways to other galaxies, they'd be to the Milky Way's satellite galaxies, smaller galaxies that are caught in the Milky Way's gravity.  There's no reason to attempt a foothold expansion in another large spiral galaxy when those satellite galaxies haven't been taken over.

Yes, they'd've had to have taken over easier targets as well.  No, I'm not sure the Leviathans actually exist, either.

This would all have made more sense if we could rewind to before the Reapers took over the Citadel, dock a big honkin' FTL drive to it, and use the Citadel as a long range escape pod.  Viable samples of every major race in the galaxy?  Check.  Internally stored fleet of FTL ships?  Check.  Renewable food, air, and water supplies?  Sort of check.  Ability to go into quantum lockdown to survive the perils of Ludicrous Speed?  Doable with a little applied phlebotinum. Presence in the Andromeda Galaxy capable of instantly undoing everything the masses of unwashed Mass Effect players thought they knew about ME3 and forcing them to take another look at the Indoctrination Theory as starting at the Cronus Base? Check plus.

It really doesn't take a whole lot for something to make more sense than where we're at now, does it?!

ah cronos base..... everything gets shit weird after cronos.

I think it's better to say that shit gets weird after the third dream. The whispers at a crescendo. The red light that does not vanish. The Shepard that burns!!!

The only thing about Cronos that seems weird to me is hearing that the Reapers moved the Citadel to Earth. I mean, how long was Shepard on Cronos Station? They somehow did that within a matter of hours. I mean how? Did it go through a relay? It just seems bizarre.

Maybe the citadel has FTL engines in its own right? From what I remember it has some sort of engine to maintain its position in the nebula, and perhaps those weird sparking capacitor plates that resemble the Shadowbroker's engines that you see on Shepard's long, painful walk are there to absorb the massive amount of static electricity created by a big mass effect drive?

Yeah, I've seen people mention that, but I can't remember hearing about it in game. Maybe it's in the codex?

Also



Okay then.

Lets have N7 mean anything then.

Okay.

Rename Mass Effect to N7. Why not.