(XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

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Post by dorktainian on Wed Oct 12, 2016 12:09 pm

Terra. Is somebody having a bad day?????

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Post by triggerwarning on Wed Oct 12, 2016 8:19 pm

Funny thing is he doesn't even understand what I'm saying and has made all sorts of laughable assumptions about me.

For starters I hadn't thought about Mass Effect for years until I just stumbled on an article on Andromeda.

At bare minimum I believed destroy was the only legit choice. My opinion was that Indoctrination Theory had a lot of compelling evidence that the ending was a hallucination, but that the ending was very ambiguous as to exactly what happened and what is real. It certainly seems all but certain that Shepard is undergoing indoctrination, the dreams alone show artistic intent on that matter, but that does not mean i think the ending was well executed.

A small army of dedicated fans spent years pouring over every detail in all three games plus dlc and there's still a huge schism between an unresolved narrative in the IT interpretation and an idiotic narrative in the literal interpretation.

That's a great idea that was poorly executed due largely to bad writing.

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Post by ZerebusPrime on Thu Oct 13, 2016 1:09 am

dorktainian wrote:Terra.  Is somebody having a bad day?????

I am.  Big time.  It's why I have zen music.
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Post by Terramine on Fri Oct 14, 2016 7:16 am

CSSteele wrote:He's probably ignoring your spammy asshattery. Like I'm failing to do by responding.
You know what's hilarious? The fact that you all were slamming, dissing, and straight up insulting Literalists, Pro-Synthesizers, and Non-ITers in general, before.

You have all at one point said exactly what I am now. So guess what? If it's asshattery on my part, then it was asshattery on all of yours well before that.

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Post by Terramine on Fri Oct 14, 2016 7:19 am

dorktainian wrote:Terra.  Is somebody having a bad day?????
Is there such a thing as a good day? Probably when I piss on my haters graves. That will be a glorious day.

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Post by dorktainian on Fri Oct 14, 2016 7:36 am

Terramine wrote:
dorktainian wrote:Terra.  Is somebody having a bad day?????
Is there such a thing as a good day? Probably when I piss on my haters graves. That will be a glorious day.

(XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV! - Page 21 Giphy

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Post by Terramine on Fri Oct 14, 2016 7:45 am

triggerwarning wrote:Funny thing is he doesn't even understand what I'm saying and has made all sorts of laughable assumptions about me.
Actually. It's basically exactly what it sounded like. So it's just your own huge ass laughable failure to express yourself correctly. Good thing I responded the way I did, otherwise you wouldn't have realized that you fucked up.

triggerwarning wrote:
At bare minimum I believed destroy was the only legit choice. My opinion was that Indoctrination Theory had a lot of compelling evidence that the ending was a hallucination, but that the ending was very ambiguous as to exactly what happened and what is real.
Ambiguity is very common in Art. In fact, Andrew Hussie relatively recently finished his webcomic Homestuck. Calling that ending Ambiguous is a vast understatement. It's gotten fans split down the divide. There are plenty who say the ending was a failure, just like the ME3 ending. The difference is, it wasn't. The ending is flawless.

The ending to Inception was ambiguous as well. Ambiguity works just fine for endings in Art. Whether they are left just absolutely uncertain, or previous stuff in the story lays down some sort of rule or bit of information that unlocks the truth to the ending. In the 2 examples I gave, while the endings themselves were ambiguous, previous shit in both stories' cases actually clarified what was goin on during the ending. For instance we know the ending to Inception wasn't a dream because the Top wasn't HIS symbol. Everybody had their own "symbol" to test whether they were in a dream or not. The key is, only your own individual symbol will work for you. You can't use sombody else's symbol, it wont work. In the case of Homestuck's ending. The "secret" is that Lord English isn't truly indestructible. He dies.

Not only can you pull an ambiguous ending off just fine. Particularly in the latter case where the answer is just cryptic rather than outright hidden. In Mass Effect 3's case. The hidden Key is Indoctrination itself and all the symbolism, hints, and facts that ITers have pointed out. Layers upon layers upon layers of shit all pointing to the same answer.

triggerwarning wrote:
It certainly seems all but certain that Shepard is undergoing indoctrination, the dreams alone show artistic intent on that matter, but that does not mean i think the ending was well executed.  
It certainly seems all but certain that you think that way. But just because you think that way, doesn't mean that thought is valid ;)

triggerwarning wrote:
A small army of dedicated fans spent years pouring over every detail in all three games plus dlc and there's still a huge schism between an unresolved narrative in the IT interpretation and an idiotic narrative in the literal interpretation.
It is not unresolved. That comes from a particular mentality that we needed a unambiguous representation of Indoctrination Theory. It's the dominant mentality on this forum. But it is not the one I ascribe to. The original IT that there was supposed to be some sort of reveal. Was just wrong. That's all what has happened so far, means. That's all Andromeda means. Not that IT in general is wrong. But that specific iteration of it is just flat out wrong.

Funny enough. Most of those who accept the original iteration still, won't even recognize that the original intent by Bioware to make a blunt reveal. Actually fell more from Drew Karpyshyn's torch than anything. The original writer. But he wasn't a part of ME3 at all. Mac Walters and Casey Hudson were in charge by that point. In which Casey asserted his own "Artistic Integrity".

Shortly after ME3. They made a new MMO that seemed to be a shitty attempt at a more blunt sort of mind gamey ordeal. Especially during the advertising phase for said game. Shout out to the reddit peeps that were busy workin around the clock to crack Bioware's retarded cryptic bullshit. Those who know what I'm talking about will get this reference: Do you even Shlord bro?

Anyways I digress. The irony of all this is. That Drew's original ending, as pointed out by BansheeOwnage when they were still around. Had REFUSE as the only other option besides Control/Synthesis. It was definitively the one that was originally intended to be the RIGHT choice and be the way out. You were given a choice to support the Reaper's efforts, or refuse.

triggerwarning wrote:
That's a great idea that was poorly executed due largely to bad writing.

-Says "It's a great Idea"
-Also says "It's clearly what was intended"
-But also says "poorly executed due to bad writing"

[ERROR DOES NOT COMPUTE]


How can you say the writing itself IS the Great Idea and then subsequently call the writing bad? Make up you mind, which is it. Is it a Great Idea, or a Bad one?

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Post by Terramine on Fri Oct 14, 2016 7:55 am

ZerebusPrime wrote:
dorktainian wrote:Terra.  Is somebody having a bad day?????

I am.  Big time.  It's why I have zen music.
That works for most normal people. For me, I'd rather listen to the exact opposite of "zen". Play some goddamn war music, cause the fight is ON.

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Post by Terramine on Fri Oct 14, 2016 10:07 pm

(XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV! - Page 21 TsvHDax

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Post by triggerwarning on Fri Oct 14, 2016 11:05 pm

Is this real? Where's the ignore button...

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Post by CSSteele on Sat Oct 15, 2016 7:41 am

I don't know, I think he was dropped on his head as a child, I can't think of anyone on the forum that actually reads his stuff anymore. It's .. always like that, and he somehow thinks that he's an effective communicator or that his ideas have merit.. or something. Somehow he believes we care about his massive spam of 3-4 posts at a time with his rambly insults about everything.
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Post by DoomsdayDevice on Sun Oct 16, 2016 3:44 am

We could make an exception to the no rules policy and ban the idiot. Nobody would care. His bullshit isn't even comic relief any more.

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Post by Maximus on Mon Oct 17, 2016 2:12 pm

CSSteele wrote:I don't know, I think he was dropped on his head as a child, I can't think of anyone on the forum that actually reads his stuff anymore...

There's at least one guy on this forum that does and finds this whole shitstorm mildly amusing. I say keep it comin'. At least something entertaining to read while we wait for ME:A Culpa! Hue! o/

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Post by dorktainian on Mon Oct 17, 2016 2:16 pm

(XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV! - Page 21 Tumblr_ljh0puClWT1qfkt17

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Post by CSSteele on Wed Oct 19, 2016 7:20 am

Well, there ya go! Maximus reads it! At least someone finds it ... enter.. taining? Amusing you said, so, there we go. Still. The head-drop thing, I suspect.
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Post by windsurfing on Wed Oct 19, 2016 9:02 am

CSSteele wrote:Well, there ya go! Maximus reads it! At least someone finds it ... enter.. taining? Amusing you said, so, there we go. Still. The head-drop thing, I suspect.

you're wasting your time on that devolved life-form in the process lowering your superior IQ.

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In other news, stop the pressess!

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Post by ZerebusPrime on Wed Oct 19, 2016 11:25 pm

The vertigo is because the fan rage cannot be let loose on the BSN anymore. It's sort of like holding in all your farts for a week straight.
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Post by Terramine on Thu Oct 20, 2016 12:30 am

Ad populum. Sorry bruhs. Massive Circlejerking doesn't make your opinions of me any more accurate or truthful.

Twiggerwarning is just saying that because he lost and can't refute anything I said.

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Post by Terramine on Thu Oct 20, 2016 12:31 am

DoomsdayDevice wrote:We could make an exception to the no rules policy and ban the idiot. Nobody would care. His bullshit isn't even comic relief any more.
It's not bullshit. It's yall that's bullshit. Again Restrider, anyone?

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Post by Terramine on Thu Oct 20, 2016 12:35 am

Sidenote: If y'all DO decide to ban me. It'll just be that much more deliciously ironic when you see me on TV and realize ignoring me was never an option on the table LMAO

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Post by WeAreHarbinger on Thu Oct 20, 2016 2:02 am

(XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV! - Page 21 200_s

Sidenote: You can "be on TV" and people can still ignore the fuck out of you, mate. You sound like one of those talent show fails that usually drop the "YOU'LL FEEL SHIT WHEN IM FAMOUS" bomb. Keep going though, it's hilarious.

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Post by Norlond on Thu Oct 20, 2016 2:05 am

Terramine wrote:Sidenote: If y'all DO decide to ban me. It'll just be that much more deliciously ironic when you see me on TV and realize ignoring me was never an option on the table LMAO
he's gonna be on the national news, "madman arrested after insisting he has a bomb to blow up the universe, locked away in asylum"

also ain't no one banning him, his batshit insanity is funny as fuck, i don't wanna miss that

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Post by Rifneno on Thu Oct 20, 2016 3:33 am

Man.  A lot of stupid here since I last read the thread.  *cracks knuckles*

windsurfing wrote:Was there any incest type romance in the DA series? I don't play DA so am asking.

No.  Which kind of sucks because Hawke's sister was the only woman in 2 that I didn't want to beat to death with a frozen leg of lamb.

ZerebusPrime wrote:Ah yes.  Disseminating Reaper Code across all the Geth and then standing back while they start to install themselves into Quarian suits and manipulate Quarian biology.

Nothing at all of tremendous concern there! Cool

NOT THIS SHIT AGAIN.

(XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV! - Page 21 IyZiD

Raistlin Majere wrote:Edit: Also i guess the Normandy and EDI is Reaper controlled as well since we are using a Reaper IFF and our main cannon is reverse engineered from Reaper tech.

Every FTL capable ship in the series is running on Reaper code.  Every single one.  The FTL systems code is one of those things that every cycle assumes the last one built and uses.  That's why we don't have weaponized FTL to use against the Reapers: because ALL FTL code is written by the Reapers and no one knows how to reverse engineer it or build their own without the Reapers' anti-weaponization protection in it.

So sure, every single ship engaging the Reapers is running partially on Reaper tech.  But the geth are SPECIAL.  Against all logic, reason, and evidence the geth are being controlled by the Reapers still.  That's not impossibly retarded at all.

triggerwarning wrote:
Terramine wrote:I thought we all were aware that anyone who sees the ending as "just bad writing" is a total retard. It's a cop out spewed by those who don't even have an iota of brains to think about shit.

Just because clear foreshadowing exists, and the ending choices seem to thematically reflect that foreshadowing doesn't mean IT as it is generally understood-some level of hallucination- is true, nor does  these thematic elements clearly existing necessarily preclude bad writing in the ending.

Yeah.  Definitely.  I mean, it's totally possible that BAD RITEING LOLZ aligned perfectly so that there's a good rational explanation for everything.  That's definitely a scenario worth considering.  I mean, I can't count all the times terribly written sci fi all suddenly makes perfect sense when an unintentional fan theory is added to the mix.

Oh wait, yes I can.  FUCKING NEVER.

DoomsdayDevice wrote:I'll bite. Just for the sake of argument. Sleeper agent, Legion probably doesn't even realize he could be used at any time the Reapers desire. Also the Reapers prefer Shepard alive. We all know why.

Just for the sake of argument, how about if we only consider things that are rationally supported and not pull random bullshit out of our asses?  I know it's tempting to make up nonsense, dem and Swoby did it all the time, but how about if we only discuss things that there's anything to support and not random, baseless supposition?  If not, can we move onto dem's "TIM is secretly a Reaper because his room looks a little different in 3 than in 2" theory?  It's just as well supported as your GETH ARE TEH DEBIL theory but it annoys me less.

Because the Reapers didn't deem it necessary yet. They're patient. They like to keep some aces up their sleeves. Also, it would have made Shepard's decision to choose destroy and sacrifice the Geth a hell of a lot easier. I for one wouldn't be surprised to see horrendous Quarian/Geth hybrids in the sequel that'll never happen.

BULL. FUCKING. SHIT.

The Reapers are patient indeed, because they're immortal in the sense that they'll never die of old age.  They're patient because the loss of even a single Reaper is a huge deal.  When the fleets arrive at Earth, they arrive in such force that the loss of countless destroyers and likely dozens of capital ships was inevitable.  If they had some secret ace up their sleeve, they'd have used it there to prevent such losses.  They didn't.  That battle probably set them back a million years and you think they're waiting for something bigger to use their ace on?  Something bigger than a final battle with the entire fucking galactic military?  Did you think this crap through, or just go straight to "defend bad theory, bad theory is under attack, must defend!"?

ZerebusPrime wrote:Plus I just think that Legion of ME3 has turned 180 degrees away from Legion of ME2 in terms of core motivation.  Legion from ME2 knew better than to accept a future from the Reapers, knew the critical importance of the Geth finding their own way through technological progress, and that's just the runtimes within its platform, not the Consensus as a whole.  The Consensus getting dumber by virtue of the Quarian attack is no excuse for Legion accepting a Reaper upgrade and then keeping it after we free it from the Geth dreadnought.

Gee... it's almost like Legion's writer, Chris L'Etoile, left between games and they wanted to write the character out.

Naw, that can't be.  If that were the case, there'd be supporting evidence.  Like Legion would be the only squadmate in the entire trilogy who doesn't get any content at all in Citadel.

We all saw how Reaper Code can regenerate and extend itself in the Geth Consensus mission.  I've no doubt that it will snake its way through the entire combined Quarian-Geth network.  The Geth need to die: their having souls increases the tragedy but does not elevate them above any other society on the ME3 chopping board.

Gee.  It's almost like there was an active, live Reaper hooked up to the consensus during that mission.  If only Shepard blew it the fuck up...

CSSteele wrote:TriggerWarning, just ignore Terramine .. Ironic Particle, whatever name he's going by nowadays. We stopped reading his rants a long time ago. He's ... going to destroy the world, with his amazing physics bombs and stuff. He's a genius, far smarter than the rest of us.

For those of you just joining us, bask in IP's "glory" and see why he's the only person even I don't bother with.

(XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV! - Page 21 Yvo21tP

triggerwarning wrote:It doesn't work at all from a literal interpretation, and doesn't work as a hallucination in many ways.

I like how literalist twits always SAY this, but never explain.

Or do explain, and it's something asinine like "but the prothean VI would've detected this indoctrination before it happened!  Obviously Protheans had excellent indoctrination detection.  Why did they fail again?"  Remember that one dipshit who insisted that Shepard's kinetic barriers would've protected him from indoctrination?

DoomsdayDevice wrote:We could make an exception to the no rules policy and ban the idiot. Nobody would care. His bullshit isn't even comic relief any more.

Or how about we NOT be hypocritical cunts?

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Post by TurianRebel212 on Thu Oct 20, 2016 5:50 am

Terramine is the hero this board deserves, but not the one it needs right now. Also, I just save 15 percent on my car insurance. GG.

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Post by CSSteele on Thu Oct 20, 2016 12:03 pm

Oh, entire UNIVERSE, sorry Rif, I misquoted the scale on that one. Guess he was far worse than I recalled from that crazy-ass tirade. Wow. Holy crap. ... I'm stunned.
CSSteele
CSSteele
Nemesis

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Join date : 2013-01-09

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