So, when do you think the Hallucination starts? UPDATED WITH POLL

Title says it all. When do you think is the most likely point for Shepard to go nighty-night?

Prior to the EC, I would have said at Harbinger's blast, but the Normandy pickup is so nonsensical and unbelievable that I'm inclined to think it starts at the Mako crash when the screen briefly fades to black. The Normandy extricates itself from a pitched space battle, enters the atmosphere, and screeches to a stop, literally 3 seconds after Shepard radios for help. Then Harby, not noted for possessing a charitable nature, sportingly waits for Shepard to kiss his LI goodbye and then watches the Normandy leave without firing a shot. He actually turns slightly to watch it go, and does nothing. Even more ludicrous than the teleporting squadmates of the original version imo.

Or do you think it starts even further back? Possibly Shepard never wakes up from the third dream sequence?

Edit: As suggested, I've added a poll.

I am conflicted between mako crash and before Cronos. The dream was shorter this time, so it feels like Shepard woke up too early making a multiple layer dream all the more conceivable IMO.

However I lean more towards at LEAST the mako crash with WNT overlay even unto Cronos because to me it makes it all the more seamless and subtle if Shepard has been hallucinating more frequently beforehand... not to mention it seems like a lot of things are off since Cronos anyways.

I think the mako crash because it's unexplained, the evac scene and because the white flash is usually transition within or out a dream, not to it (though I could be wrong)

I think Shepard's perspective is being warped long before that though.

IronicParticle wrote:I am conflicted between mako crash and before Cronos. The dream was shorter this time, so it feels like Shepard woke up too early making a multiple layer dream all the more conceivable IMO.

However I lean more towards at LEAST the mako crash with WNT overlay even unto Cronos because to me it makes it all the more seamless and subtle if Shepard has been hallucinating more frequently beforehand..

I've heard people mention weird things they've noticed on Cronos, but if I'm honest I didn't think it was particularly dreamlike myself when I played through it. There's the hull breach with no visible force field holding the air in, but apart from that there's nothing that strikes me as being as "unreal" as everything post the Mako crash.

However I am always suspicious of Vendetta's info dump. Particularly as he precedes it with the words "Security protocols deactivated. I will comply." Which implies that a. he's been compromised by Cerberus, so nothing he says can be completely trusted and b. if his security protocols were fully active he might not be inclined to talk to a partially indoctrinated Shepard perhaps...

I think this image could help to categorize this whole topic more.



Here is the link to the specific entry on my blog on BSN. There is also a poll about your preferred variation of IT.

RavenEyry wrote:I think the mako crash because it's unexplained, the evac scene and because the white flash is usually transition within or out a dream, not to it (though I could be wrong)

I think Shepard's perspective is being warped long before that though.

A subtle warping of perspective I can buy. Particularly as Shep's performance in the turret section apparently affects the survival chances of the woman on the radio in the next scene, despite the fact that she must be miles away.

Eryri wrote:
A subtle warping of perspective I can buy. Particularly as Shep's performance in the turret section apparently affects the survival chances of the woman on the radio in the next scene, despite the fact that she must be miles away.

Various places in London have similarities to places you've been before and there's this odd confetti effect that I think also appears in dreams (It's been a while, I haven't actually played 3 more than once, most stuff comes from screenies and vids.)

@ Restrider

I can't remember my original choice, but these days I would go for I. Cronos is real, but everything after the crash is a hallucination with the exception of the breath scene. I even count the stargazer scene as being suspect as I can't believe the same slightly unlikely event - a grandparent telling stories on a freezing cold night in a forest, would occur in exactly the same way upteen thousand years later, no matter what happens.

RavenEyry wrote:

Eryri wrote:
A subtle warping of perspective I can buy. Particularly as Shep's performance in the turret section apparently affects the survival chances of the woman on the radio in the next scene, despite the fact that she must be miles away.

Various places in London have similarities to places you've been before and there's this odd confetti effect that I think also appears in dreams (It's been a while, I haven't actually played 3 more than once, most stuff comes from screenies and vids.)

I confess I've only done one complete playthrough myself. Such is the demotivational power of the ending. I did replay from Cronos onwards with the EC though.

I'm inclined to think stargazer is real but, their choice of models weirds me out. I'd never have noticed if it wasn't pointed out to me, but the kid is a shrunken adult instead of, oh lets say, the actual kid model used in game.

Upon Arrival...

RavenEyry wrote:I'm inclined to think stargazer is real but, their choice of models weirds me out. I'd never have noticed if it wasn't pointed out to me, but the kid is a shrunken adult instead of, oh lets say, the actual kid model used in game.

I find the Refuse version odd. The idea that a completely different pair of people, with a female stargazer in presumably the next cycle at least 50,000 years later, would be compelled to enact the same scene as their counterparts from some other version of reality where Shepard made a decision. Maybe Bioware were trying to make some point about "the inevitable tide of history", or some such molarky.

protognosis wrote:Upon Arrival...

While that would have a certain logic, I doubt I would be the only person upset to find that the entirety of ME3 was a hallucination. That would be a bit too much of a mind screw even for me.

Eryri wrote:

protognosis wrote:Upon Arrival...

While that would have a certain logic, I doubt I would be the only person upset to find that the entirety of ME3 was a hallucination. That would be a bit too much of a mind screw even for me.

It was more of a pithy answer. I was looking for the emoticon that would allow me to put on sunglasses and then scream YEAHHHH!!!!
"When does the hallucination start?"
"Upon Arrival"
"YEAHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

I think that's when the connection is made strongest and reality slowly starts to slip from Shepard.

protognosis wrote:

Eryri wrote:

protognosis wrote:Upon Arrival...

While that would have a certain logic, I doubt I would be the only person upset to find that the entirety of ME3 was a hallucination. That would be a bit too much of a mind screw even for me.

It was more of a pithy answer. I was looking for the emoticon that would allow me to put on sunglasses and then scream YEAHHHH!!!!
"When does the hallucination start?"
"Upon Arrival"
"YEAHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

I think that's when the connection is made strongest and reality slowly starts to slip from Shepard.

Ah, sorry. I see what you mean now. I agree, that is the most likely point for Harbinger to get his mental hooks into Shepard's brain.
I was a bit confused because there are people who seem to be suggesting that Shepard really is still stuck in Kenson's lab, hallucinating the whole of ME3. I'm not sure if they're serious or if my irony detector's broken.

I'm going to go with after the Mako crashes in London.

Despite everything, Harbinger's laser.

K on Restrider's sheet.

I hope it is the cut to black Mako Crash in London because I really don't want that ridiculously bad character destroying Normandy pickup scene to be anything but a hallucination.

Contentious.

I'm of the belief it happens when Shepard passes out in front of the Citadel console, after the final conversaiton with Anderson. I'm in the minority though I believe, as that means Shepard would be on the Citadel, and the breath scene is difficult to explain.

After Harbinger's attack is the liklier explanation, but I have trouble resolving the Anderson scenes as part of the hallucination, simply because I think it's the best part of the final mission...

Restrider wrote:I think this image could help to categorize this whole topic more.



Here is the link to the specific entry on my blog on BSN. There is also a poll about your preferred variation of IT.

i´m between K and J as always

Go MIB

Its definitely the Mako crash scene. Its sudden, abrupt, and all sorts of silliness occurs afterward.

RavenEyry wrote:I'm inclined to think stargazer is real but, their choice of models weirds me out. I'd never have noticed if it wasn't pointed out to me, but the kid is a shrunken adult instead of, oh lets say, the actual kid model used in game.

I always feel like the Stargazer scene is simply meta. We're the kid/shrunken adult and the grandfather either represents Bioware, NASA/generalized interest in space, or some combination. I mean we have one of the first people to ever walk on the moon in Buzz Aldrin telling us that one day we will go to the stars.

Restrider wrote:I think this image could help to categorize this whole topic more.



Here is the link to the specific entry on my blog on BSN. There is also a poll about your preferred variation of IT.

I can't vote because of reasons stated more than once now :P Also I am outside the scope of this so this is how I would do it:

Cronos: Pink
Mako Crash: purple
Every moment after this except the breathe scene, and possibly the stargazer scene: Cyan
Breathe Scene: Red
Stargazer: I want to say Cyan but could be Red for all I care.

the mako crash. everything after that is just utterly bonkers.

Raistlin Majere wrote:I hope it is the cut to black Mako Crash in London because I really don't want that ridiculously bad character destroying Normandy pickup scene to be anything but a hallucination.

Indeed. Much like my feelings for synthesis really.