Bioshock Infinite: Will the circle be unbroken..? *** MAJOR SPOILERS ***

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Re: Bioshock Infinite: Will the circle be unbroken..? *** MAJOR SPOILERS ***

Post by Allynna on Tue Apr 30, 2013 2:12 pm

Everything in this game is foreshadowing Laughing I am playing it for second time now so i can tell, trust me Laughing There are so many hints that i notice now, the first time i never saw them, never thought they are important :D

And yes, when you drown Comstock in your anger, he is not dead for good. He still lives in million worlds, as Elizabeth said after that.

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Re: Bioshock Infinite: Will the circle be unbroken..? *** MAJOR SPOILERS ***

Post by MaximizedAction on Tue Apr 30, 2013 2:16 pm

Allynna wrote:Everything in this game is foreshadowing Laughing I am playing it for second time now so i can tell, trust me Laughing There are so many hints that i notice now, the first time i never saw them, never thought they are important :D

And yes, when you drown Comstock in your anger, he is not dead for good. He still lives in million worlds, as Elizabeth said after that.

Ah right. Embarassed

So therefore Comstock had to be killed in his 'crib'. And once again, the finality of the death would've been less questionable IF NOT for the easter egg scene at the end! Laughing

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Re: Bioshock Infinite: Will the circle be unbroken..? *** MAJOR SPOILERS ***

Post by Allynna on Tue Apr 30, 2013 2:21 pm

Yep.

Here is the whole story edited, its a nice movie-like video. Check out the last scenes if you want :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=6iZZg2qiBos#t=11844s

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Re: Bioshock Infinite: Will the circle be unbroken..? *** MAJOR SPOILERS ***

Post by Raistlin Majere on Tue Apr 30, 2013 2:35 pm

Allynna wrote:Hm, i havent heard of this purgatory theory.

For me the scene after the credits is quite clear - he wakes up in his room the date he sold Anna to Comstock (October 8th, 1893), but Comstock is dead, so i think that Anna is in her crib.
And he asks "Anna? Anna?! Is that you?". That seems strange for me if he doesnt remember anything so i think he does. And I'll headcanon that he changes after all and he will be a good father.

What saddens me is that when Elizabeth kills Comstock, she also "kills herself". I mean maybe she will have a different personality with Booker.

I don't think Booker remembers exactly what happened, but I think he has glimpses.

Think about that we learn that when someone is drawn into another world, their memories adapt. Now think about it in reverse. Booker is sitting in his apartment on the day he sold Anna when suddenly all that changes, Comstock seizes to have existed and he never sold Anna. With that alteration his memories has to adapt again spurring on him hearing Anna and exclaiming, "Anna? Anna?! Is that you?"

What might happen is that he after that simply remembers that he lost Anna, that it was his fault and that he now has her back somehow, if even that much. His memories adapting to the change across the multiverse caused by the events of the game.

But that is just my idea.

Though now that I think about it, Comstock and his deeds being erased from existence in many ways is a reset button for Booker, a new chance to make things right for himself and Anna. In that way Booker's baptism drowning at the end of the game wipes away Comstock and his sins, leaving only Booker to walk away from it, sort of a reverse of how Comstock was created.

I hope Booker makes the most of his second chance.

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Re: Bioshock Infinite: Will the circle be unbroken..? *** MAJOR SPOILERS ***

Post by Allynna on Tue Apr 30, 2013 2:48 pm

I hope too.

And what i say about the post-credits scene is just more of my headcanon, not a fact. It is left like that for a reason, everybody can think what they feel is right. For me he remembers most of the things, his brain adapts to the new events and yeah... he'll learn and will be a good father ;)

I cant wait for the DLCs, i hope they'll not be just weapons and stuff, i want more story! Laughing

OMG, its so good to speculate without wanting to crush my head in the table...



Edit:

Now I rewatched that scene where you drown Comstock and Booker is all like -

"She is your daughter you son of a bitch. And you abandoned her, was it worth it? Did you get what you wanted?"

Brr, goosebumps.

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Re: Bioshock Infinite: Will the circle be unbroken..? *** MAJOR SPOILERS ***

Post by MaximizedAction on Tue Apr 30, 2013 6:29 pm

Allynna wrote:I hope too.

And what i say about the post-credits scene is just more of my headcanon, not a fact. It is left like that for a reason, everybody can think what they feel is right. For me he remembers most of the things, his brain adapts to the new events and yeah... he'll learn and will be a good father ;)

I cant wait for the DLCs, i hope they'll not be just weapons and stuff, i want more story! Laughing

OMG, its so good to speculate without wanting to crush my head in the table...




Edit:

Now I rewatched that scene where you drown Comstock and Booker is all like -

"She is your daughter you son of a bitch. And you abandoned her, was it worth it? Did you get what you wanted?"

Brr, goosebumps.

IKR?!

And yeah, Booker's dialog when he's killing Comstock really gets an additional interpretation in secondary playthroughs!

EDIT - http://stickskills.com/2013/04/29/rumor-new-ai-character-bioshock-infinite-dlc/

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Re: Bioshock Infinite: Will the circle be unbroken..? *** MAJOR SPOILERS ***

Post by Allynna on Tue Apr 30, 2013 6:43 pm

MaximizedAction wrote:EDIT - http://stickskills.com/2013/04/29/rumor-new-ai-character-bioshock-infinite-dlc/

I'd love to play as Elizabeth, I really hope we'll get the chance. Maybe Booker is the new AI Laughing Love

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Re: Bioshock Infinite: Will the circle be unbroken..? *** MAJOR SPOILERS ***

Post by Raistlin Majere on Tue Apr 30, 2013 6:47 pm

You know, DLC could easily explore different realities we glimpse. Imagine playing as the Brooker who became Martyr for the Vox Populi. Then Slate or Daisy could be the new AI character.

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Re: Bioshock Infinite: Will the circle be unbroken..? *** MAJOR SPOILERS ***

Post by Allynna on Tue Apr 30, 2013 7:41 pm

Yeah, that would be great too.

I am watching this demo and everything looks so different. This Elizabeth can be seen at the end when all Elizabeths come to you.
Maybe this is an alternate reality?


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Re: Bioshock Infinite: Will the circle be unbroken..? *** MAJOR SPOILERS ***

Post by MaximizedAction on Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:09 pm

To be fair, most of the dialog (except for the horse) is in the game - just at different times and places.

Of course, you could argue that it makes perfect sense in-game as it's just another reality! ^^

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Re: Bioshock Infinite: Will the circle be unbroken..? *** MAJOR SPOILERS ***

Post by Allynna on Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:22 pm

Everything makes sense in this game, :D

I have to admit that i've never played Bioshock 1 and 2... Embarassed Are they good as Infinite?

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Re: Bioshock Infinite: Will the circle be unbroken..? *** MAJOR SPOILERS ***

Post by Raistlin Majere on Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:30 pm

Allynna wrote:Yeah, that would be great too.

I am watching this demo and everything looks so different. This Elizabeth can be seen at the end when all Elizabeths come to you.
Maybe this is an alternate reality?


The game was extensively rewritten during development (they say they discarded about 10 times the content they actually used) which was why it took so long to develop and caused extensive worry among fans. The result however was worth it and proof that a long troubled development can still turn out something amazing.

The gameplay there is probably an earlier version.

On the other hand it means they have plenty of content on hand for DLC.

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Re: Bioshock Infinite: Will the circle be unbroken..? *** MAJOR SPOILERS ***

Post by Raistlin Majere on Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:34 pm

Allynna wrote:Everything makes sense in this game, :D

I have to admit that i've never played Bioshock 1 and 2... Embarassed Are they good as Infinite?

Played some of Bioshock 1 but could not get into it completely for some reason. Stopped around the halfway point I think.

Unrelated, but how many of the twists near the end did you deduce ahead of time? I deduced the Luteces were the ones who had hired Brooker and that Elizabeth was Brookers daughter before the actual reveals. The Comstock / Brooker reveal took me by surprise though.

In general though I love trying to deduce the plot of games, film and books ahead of time, even if the conclusions I reach in some cases I really hope I am wrong about Sad

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Re: Bioshock Infinite: Will the circle be unbroken..? *** MAJOR SPOILERS ***

Post by Allynna on Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:46 pm

I was the other way around, i was almost sure that Booker is somehow related to Comstock, i thought that maybe they are the same person, but the fact that Elizabeth is really their daughter... i didnt saw it coming Laughing I was even expecting she and Booker to fall in love or something, lol... The way she touched his hands all the time.... yeah, i would never think that she is his child. Laughing Embarassed

About the Luteces, i dont know if i was sure, but i suspected them. I remember the 1st time i thought there is something wrong with them - when you can see them standing there only with the binocular. And when they send you telegram "do not use number 77". And after that a ball with number 77 comes in my hands... yeah, there is definitely something wrong with them :)

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Re: Bioshock Infinite: Will the circle be unbroken..? *** MAJOR SPOILERS ***

Post by MaximizedAction on Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:50 pm

Raistlin Majere wrote:
...
Unrelated, but how many of the twists near the end did you deduce ahead of time? I deduced the Luteces were the ones who had hired Brooker and that Elizabeth was Brookers daughter before the actual reveals. The Comstock / Brooker reveal took me by surprise though.

In general though I love trying to deduce the plot of games, film and books ahead of time, even if the conclusions I reach in some cases I really hope I am wrong about Sad

Like you, I got the feeling that the Luteces were the two on the boat.

As for the Liz being Booker daughter...I sadly got spoilered for that part on the internet, not the scene, just the fact. :(

BUT...when I saw rift scene in the game...I got all shivery and teary none the less. Really well done that scene.

As for the rest. Booker being Comstock took me by surprise too. Which is funny though, because as a gamer one might think that I'd always be prepared for that kind of twist. Grin

It all definitely speaks for the presentation of the story.

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Re: Bioshock Infinite: Will the circle be unbroken..? *** MAJOR SPOILERS ***

Post by Allynna on Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:15 pm

You are not prepared!

The reveal scene was perfect. I was

I am getting goosebumps only when i think about it.


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Re: Bioshock Infinite: Will the circle be unbroken..? *** MAJOR SPOILERS ***

Post by Raistlin Majere on Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:37 pm

Allynna wrote:You are not prepared!

The reveal scene was perfect. I was

I am getting goosebumps only when i think about it.


Indeed it was perfectly handled. Brooker's surprise at being back at the Baptism, then the slow realization as the different Elizabeths take his hand and finally the reveal as he pushed beneath the water. Perfect reveal.

But yeah I love trying to deduce such things ahead of time and it helps me write my own twists for the stories I write myself. But as I said it has some downsides. A book series I am reading has two main characters who I really like and i have been following them across 7 books with 9 planned in the series...but I have picked up a red thread running through the books hinting at a unhappy ending for one or both of the characters. I hope I am wrong and right at the same time Paragade

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Re: Bioshock Infinite: Will the circle be unbroken..? *** MAJOR SPOILERS ***

Post by Allynna on Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:37 pm

Indeed it have downsides. It takes the surprise away, i guess too many books, movies and games do this to people :)

And this is what i am going through right now! Its sad, i suck at FPS.


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Re: Bioshock Infinite: Will the circle be unbroken..? *** MAJOR SPOILERS ***

Post by MaximizedAction on Tue Apr 30, 2013 11:18 pm

That feel when you lose Liz again.

And I'm also not really a shooter expert, so Bioshock not being too harsh in those elements made it easy to pass the shooting scenes to get on with the story again. :D

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Re: Bioshock Infinite: Will the circle be unbroken..? *** MAJOR SPOILERS ***

Post by lex0r on Thu May 02, 2013 1:11 am

Allynna wrote:Everything makes sense in this game, :D

I have to admit that i've never played Bioshock 1 and 2... Embarassed Are they good as Infinite?

Bioshock 1 is great as well. You guys should try it, great story too. Bioshock 2 might be better story telling wise and lacks the atmosphere of the first because the "fresh experience" of rapture is gone but it differs for everyone.
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Re: Bioshock Infinite: Will the circle be unbroken..? *** MAJOR SPOILERS ***

Post by Allynna on Fri May 03, 2013 10:38 am

Ok, there is something i dont understand. What exactly Booker remembers about his *real life*. From his conversations with Elizabeth we know that he remembers his wife dying in childbirth, but he said that he doesnt have a child... ? So he is terribly confused (i know he is) or he thinks the child died too? wtf confused

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Re: Bioshock Infinite: Will the circle be unbroken..? *** MAJOR SPOILERS ***

Post by Raistlin Majere on Fri May 03, 2013 11:00 am

Allynna wrote:Ok, there is something i dont understand. What exactly Booker remembers about his *real life*. From his conversations with Elizabeth we know that he remembers his wife dying in childbirth, but he said that he doesnt have a child... ? So he is terribly confused (i know he is) or he thinks the child died too? wtf confused

He actually never said if the child survived or not. It was implied through his silence that the child died, but he never outright said it which could mean that he either remember it as dying or some part of him remember selling his child.

It could easily be that his memories are confused on the subject, what with the memory adaption we know happens from beeing pulled through a tear, especially into a world where his child is alive.

If I were to guess though he does remember that he had child based on all the times he says Anna and the branding he did on his hand, but what he remembers happening to her I am not sure about.

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Re: Bioshock Infinite: Will the circle be unbroken..? *** MAJOR SPOILERS ***

Post by Allynna on Fri May 03, 2013 11:22 am

Yeah, i am not sure too, i was wondering if there is something more in the game and i've missed it.
Oh, and when that conversation happens she asks him about his age and he responds "South of 40, north of you."
So yeah, i am almost positive that he is around 35-37.

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Re: Bioshock Infinite: Will the circle be unbroken..? *** MAJOR SPOILERS ***

Post by MaximizedAction on Fri May 03, 2013 2:15 pm

About the person's mind being influenced by using a tear:

Before having his hand injured during the fair, he had '77' on it. Then, in the end of the game, when his handbandage is removed, he has an 'AD' branding.

Is this part of the changed perception thing, a new physical manifestation, or maybe even Liz trolling him? ^^

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Re: Bioshock Infinite: Will the circle be unbroken..? *** MAJOR SPOILERS ***

Post by Raistlin Majere on Fri May 03, 2013 2:21 pm

MaximizedAction wrote:About the person's mind being influenced by using a tear:

Before having his hand injured during the fair, he had '77' on it. Then, in the end of the game, when his handbandage is removed, he has an 'AD' branding.

Is this part of the changed perception thing, a new physical manifestation, or maybe even Liz trolling him? ^^

No, he had AD on it from the start. When you move through Columbia for the first time you pass a sign saying the False Sheperd will be identified by his mark, the mark shown beeing AD on the back of a hand. Face this sign and Brooker raises his hand showing clearly the AD mark even as he says, "what the..."

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