The parallels between religion and the indoctrination endings

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Re: The parallels between religion and the indoctrination endings

Post by RavenEyry on Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:39 pm

If the 12 squaddies from 2 are the twelve disciples, does that make Joker the donkey?
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Re: The parallels between religion and the indoctrination endings

Post by CSSteele on Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:43 pm

Quick addition to my list. There are 3 others that can/do survive all three games to be with you till the end.

Anderson
Chakwas
Joker,
Bringing the 9 back to 12, or the 4 up to 7.

Edit: Maybe.. :P He did 'ferry' Shepard into Earth (Jerusalem) for the Final Confrontation. (Priority: Earth) :D
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Re: The parallels between religion and the indoctrination endings

Post by Terramine on Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:45 pm

Cssteele wrote:Quick addition to my list. There are 3 others that can/do survive all three games to be with you till the end.

Anderson
Chakwas
Joker,
Bringing the 9 back to 12, or the 4 up to 7.

Edit: Maybe.. :P He did 'ferry' Shepard into Earth (Jerusalem) for the Final Confrontation. (Priority: Earth) :D
I think ME2 deaths don't count, but ME3 ones could. I mean who said the Traitor couldn't die? It just wouldn't make sense to happen before ME3 I guess. The reason I say this is because Kaidan/Ashley are the most suspect after somehow not getting taken by the Collectors. What the heck is up with that? Is that even possible?

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Re: The parallels between religion and the indoctrination endings

Post by CSSteele on Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:50 pm

IronicParticle wrote:
Cssteele wrote:Quick addition to my list. There are 3 others that can/do survive all three games to be with you till the end.

Anderson
Chakwas
Joker,
Bringing the 9 back to 12, or the 4 up to 7.

Edit: Maybe.. :P He did 'ferry' Shepard into Earth (Jerusalem) for the Final Confrontation. (Priority: Earth) :D
I think ME2 deaths don't count, but ME3 ones could. I mean who said the Traitor couldn't die? It just wouldn't make sense to happen before ME3 I guess. The reason I say this is because Kaidan/Ashley are the most suspect after somehow not getting taken by the Collectors. What the heck is up with that? Is that even possible?

Mathematically, if we keep everyone that might die in ME3, we end up with far more than 12, if we count the current/new ME3 compainions. Still... speculations!
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Re: The parallels between religion and the indoctrination endings

Post by Terramine on Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:43 pm

Cssteele wrote:
IronicParticle wrote:
Cssteele wrote:Quick addition to my list. There are 3 others that can/do survive all three games to be with you till the end.

Anderson
Chakwas
Joker,
Bringing the 9 back to 12, or the 4 up to 7.

Edit: Maybe.. :P He did 'ferry' Shepard into Earth (Jerusalem) for the Final Confrontation. (Priority: Earth) :D
I think ME2 deaths don't count, but ME3 ones could. I mean who said the Traitor couldn't die? It just wouldn't make sense to happen before ME3 I guess. The reason I say this is because Kaidan/Ashley are the most suspect after somehow not getting taken by the Collectors. What the heck is up with that? Is that even possible?

Mathematically, if we keep everyone that might die in ME3, we end up with far more than 12, if we count the current/new ME3 compainions. Still... speculations!
Shhhhhhh.... I still want a dang explanation for how the VS didn't get taken by the collectors lol!

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Re: The parallels between religion and the indoctrination endings

Post by CSSteele on Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:43 pm

They were wearing armor and had shields? *shrug* I dunno!
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Re: The parallels between religion and the indoctrination endings

Post by Terramine on Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:45 pm

Cssteele wrote:They were wearing armor and had shields? *shrug* I dunno!
But they were frozen regardless. Unless they just pretended for some reason lol

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Re: The parallels between religion and the indoctrination endings

Post by Fur28 on Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:47 pm

RavenEyry wrote:If the 12 squaddies from 2 are the twelve disciples, does that make Joker the donkey?
EDI is the Holy Spirit Laughing


Last edited by Fur28 on Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:01 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: The parallels between religion and the indoctrination endings

Post by Maximus on Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:35 am

Cssteele wrote:Back on topic, dealing with the themes of ME2 and the twelve. I can't believe no one has mentioned Judas Iscariot. He was the one that sold Christ out to the Romans, leading him to his crucifiction.
*snip*
Which one is our 'bad guy'?

Liara, definietly. She's an Asari, and Asari are known to be capable of manipulating other organic's minds, take Ardat-Yakshi for example.
Despite they're near-human physiology they seem attractive to every other race in the Galaxy...which is odd. They're messing with our minds by use of pheromones or Biotic powers and make us vulnerable for manipulation. They may not even look the same as we see them. When I first saw a Banshee a I was confused by it's size. I mean, every Asari is in size of average Human while Banshees are like 3 meters tall? Why dafuq? Ok, implants, Reaper tech, etc, but Banshees are exception. Reaperized Rachni keeps the same size as it's original form, Marauders, Husks, Harvesters, Swarmers, Cannibals (size of Human more or less).
Ok, Brutes are exception too, but they are amalgamation of Krogan, Turian and hell lot of metal plates and armor. They seem more Yahg to me than Krogan, though. Well...maybe except Rachni. Bugs, you know.

Back to topic: I'm trying to say that Asari shouldn't be trusted. They hide many secrets, they CAN manipulate you, they are more advanced than any other race and maybe they suffer the same disease as Leviathans - God's Complex/Syndrome. They know that they have the galaxy in their grasp, technological advantage, sexy bodies and such, which MIGHT make them perceive themselves as...Gods/Goddesses(not sure how to spell it correctly). Superior beings. Long lifespan, great wisdom, Biotic potential in every Asari, ability to mate with other races and still have an Asari baby. They are God-like to me. Just throw Immortality to the equation and then you have it! :P

So if they are "Goddesses", they might have some arrangement with The Reapers or at least seek "salvation" by "slavery" in Reaper's arms/claws/tentacles/whatever. Just like Saren did. That's a lot of speculation I know, but I wanted to show you why I don't trust Asari and how everything about them is suspicious. Liara has much power in ME3 as a Shadow Broker. She's up to something but we don't know yet. She's gonna betray Shepard and use Him for "greater good", much like Kreia did in KotOR II or at least she attempted to do so...

She's been manipulating Shepard all along I'm telling you! ;>

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Re: The parallels between religion and the indoctrination endings

Post by BleedingUranium on Tue Jan 15, 2013 12:14 pm

IronicParticle wrote:Shhhhhhh.... I still want a dang explanation for how the VS didn't get taken by the collectors lol!

Paragon Lost explains that the Alliance developed a cure for the paralysis. Not like Mordin's which was a sound frequency that confused the Seeker Swarms, but an actual antidote to reverse the effects. Given that this happened before Shepard came back, it's only logical that the VS would have it with them, and probably used it on the remaining colonists as well.
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Re: The parallels between religion and the indoctrination endings

Post by RavenEyry on Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:53 pm

Bit of an asspull made years later but it's something at least. I suppose it takes a moment to kick in.

That's if you choose to accept Paragon Lost as a thing that exists, which I'm reluctant to do from the trailer.
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Re: The parallels between religion and the indoctrination endings

Post by Terramine on Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:49 pm

BleedingUranium wrote:
IronicParticle wrote:Shhhhhhh.... I still want a dang explanation for how the VS didn't get taken by the collectors lol!

Paragon Lost explains that the Alliance developed a cure for the paralysis. Not like Mordin's which was a sound frequency that confused the Seeker Swarms, but an actual antidote to reverse the effects. Given that this happened before Shepard came back, it's only logical that the VS would have it with them, and probably used it on the remaining colonists as well.
Aside from Raven's point, the question is how you take the cure when you are frozen. We never see the VS use it... is it a shot, a pill, what?

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Re: The parallels between religion and the indoctrination endings

Post by Fur28 on Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:04 pm

IronicParticle wrote:
BleedingUranium wrote:
IronicParticle wrote:Shhhhhhh.... I still want a dang explanation for how the VS didn't get taken by the collectors lol!

Paragon Lost explains that the Alliance developed a cure for the paralysis. Not like Mordin's which was a sound frequency that confused the Seeker Swarms, but an actual antidote to reverse the effects. Given that this happened before Shepard came back, it's only logical that the VS would have it with them, and probably used it on the remaining colonists as well.
Aside from Raven's point, the question is how you take the cure when you are frozen. We never see the VS use it... is it a shot, a pill, what?
maybe is like the fake teeth ones, where you take it out with your tongue.
Wathever VS is an indoctrinated agent.

P.S.
Did you all know that in the DC comics, Judas is a superhero?

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Re: The parallels between religion and the indoctrination endings

Post by Maximus on Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:24 pm

Judas a Superhero? What powers does he possess? ;>

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Re: The parallels between religion and the indoctrination endings

Post by Fur28 on Fri Jan 18, 2013 5:46 am

CorranusMaximus wrote:Judas a Superhero? What powers does he possess? ;>
he´s the Phantom Stranger, one of the three traitors(betrayed Jesus of course), answers to the Council of magic, he can´t have any relationship whatsoever.
Powers: who knows, teletranpostation is one, he doesn´t really fight.

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Re: The parallels between religion and the indoctrination endings

Post by Guest on Sat Feb 02, 2013 3:08 am

CSSteele wrote:Back on topic, dealing with the themes of ME2 and the twelve. I can't believe no one has mentioned Judas Iscariot. He was the one that sold Christ out to the Romans, leading him to his crucifiction.

If they are following the themes as closely as it appears, which of the companions is the 'traitor' in the midst of the 'heroes'? Do we pick from only the ME2 companions, or from those still alive at the end of ME3?

Garrus -- Can die in ME2, if he survives the SM, he's still (Alive)
Tali --- Same as Garrus, but can die at the end of Rannoch
Ashley/Kaiden --- Only one is alive in ME3, can die on the Citadel
Wrex --- Possibly dead, best leader for the Krogan in 3, can still die
Liara ---- Lives through all 3, no chance to die really, Alive
----------
Jack -- Can be turned if ignored
Samara -- Can suicide if allowed
Legion --- Dies either 'saving' the geth or at Shepard's hand
Grunt -- Alive
Miranda -- Can die if not treated exactly correct
Jacob -- Alive
Thane -- Dies if he hasn't already
Kasumi -- Alive works on the Crucible
Zaeed -- Alive
Mordin --- Dies redeeming himself with the genophage
--------------
EDI --- Alive
Javik --- Alive
James --- Alive

ME3 only introduces three new characters as companions, coincidentally, in a perfect play-through only 3 of the pevious companions are slated to die, bringing the number back up to 12, thus eliminating Mordin, Legion and Thane as possible 'traitors'.

Dropping out the others that can die ( unless my knowledge of their plot points in ME3 is incorrect or missing something ) We end up with a total of 9 living characters. ( Assuming a perfect ME2 playthrough). Garrus, Liara, Zaeed, Jacob, Grunt, EDI, Javik, James, and Kasumi.

Eliminating the ones that can die in ME2, we're left with a very, very small list. Liara, EDI, Javik and James.

Which one is our 'bad guy'?

Funny enough, Liara, EDI, and James have all been suspect for several IT-related reasons.

I'm going with Liara as the traitor, and that's why she was kept alive in all games.

Does NOT make her 'bad guy'. I think that IF she is EVER shown to be a betrayer, there will still be possibilities for good endings with her. Just like with Bastilla in KOTOR.

Shadow Broker DLC could mean a lot more than we thought, just like with Arrival with Indoctrination, and Overlord with Geth/Synthesis.

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Re: The parallels between religion and the indoctrination endings

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