(XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

I still think there's too many problems with the PC of 4 being Shepard's kid. Beyond all the obvious "but my Shepard's choices!" ones, there's major problems with moving the timeline forward 20-30 years. Any real resistance to the Reapers will have been stomped out by then. And Earth will be completely finished by then, along with any other homeworld. In ME3, they estimated 10 years at the current rate of harvest (which is only increasing in speed, not decreasing) before Earth was completely depopulated. After what a big deal they made of Earth in ME3, I can't imagine them just writing it off.

Rifneno wrote:I still think there's too many problems with the PC of 4 being Shepard's kid.  Beyond all the obvious "but my Shepard's choices!" ones, there's major problems with moving the timeline forward 20-30 years.  Any real resistance to the Reapers will have been stomped out by then.  And Earth will be completely finished by then, along with any other homeworld.  In ME3, they estimated 10 years at the current rate of harvest (which is only increasing in speed, not decreasing) before Earth was completely depopulated.  After what a big deal they made of Earth in ME3, I can't imagine them just writing it off.

If (and I'm just examining possibilities here) the Reapers were actually beaten in ME3, then it becomes possible for the protagonist of ME4 to be Shep's kid. Of course, there's a lot of weirdness going on in ME3 that makes me doubt that actually happened.

Dwailing wrote:

Rifneno wrote:I still think there's too many problems with the PC of 4 being Shepard's kid.  Beyond all the obvious "but my Shepard's choices!" ones, there's major problems with moving the timeline forward 20-30 years.  Any real resistance to the Reapers will have been stomped out by then.  And Earth will be completely finished by then, along with any other homeworld.  In ME3, they estimated 10 years at the current rate of harvest (which is only increasing in speed, not decreasing) before Earth was completely depopulated.  After what a big deal they made of Earth in ME3, I can't imagine them just writing it off.

If (and I'm just examining possibilities here) the Reapers were actually beaten in ME3, then it becomes possible for the protagonist of ME4 to be Shep's kid.  Of course, there's a lot of weirdness going on in ME3 that makes me doubt that actually happened.

Why would they have the balls to make a direct sequel and confront the ending head-on but NOT have the balls to admit IT?

Unless you're suggesting that it's possible the Reapers were really meant to be beaten in ME3 all along, in which case slap yourself very hard.

Oh!  Re: Strahovski's picture.

You guise!  What if it's not Miranda?  What if it's Oriana?!      

Rifneno wrote:

Dwailing wrote:

Rifneno wrote:I still think there's too many problems with the PC of 4 being Shepard's kid.  Beyond all the obvious "but my Shepard's choices!" ones, there's major problems with moving the timeline forward 20-30 years.  Any real resistance to the Reapers will have been stomped out by then.  And Earth will be completely finished by then, along with any other homeworld.  In ME3, they estimated 10 years at the current rate of harvest (which is only increasing in speed, not decreasing) before Earth was completely depopulated.  After what a big deal they made of Earth in ME3, I can't imagine them just writing it off.

If (and I'm just examining possibilities here) the Reapers were actually beaten in ME3, then it becomes possible for the protagonist of ME4 to be Shep's kid.  Of course, there's a lot of weirdness going on in ME3 that makes me doubt that actually happened.

Why would they have the balls to make a direct sequel and confront the ending head-on but NOT have the balls to admit IT?

Unless you're suggesting that it's possible the Reapers were really meant to be beaten in ME3 all along, in which case slap yourself very hard.

I can see it as technically possible (though mindblowing, in both good and very bad ways) that Bioware just keeps with their 'your interpretation is valid' narrative about the Milky Way, and they run away and take us to Andromeda, and we continue onward (with even more things to just interpret in our own way).

Layers and layers and undecipherable 'bullshit' would be quite awe inspiring, while terribly annoying. Its one thing for Bioware to have us 'iffy' about, say, how the Elven civilization existed in Dragon Age (lots of ambiguity in DAI). Its another to leave us in the dark about freaking Shepard's fate, the outcome of the war, and any of its relationship to the next game in the series.

IT? Well it could have happened, just imagine Shepard kicking ass afterward!
Destroy? Well it could have happened, just imagine Shepard getting himself out of rubble or being pulled out!
Control? Well it could have happened, just imagine Shepard ruling or guiding the galaxy!
Synthesis? Well it could have happened, just imagine Synthesis-Galaxy being really advanced and shit!
Etc? Well whatever, etc etc!



I'm really just following a hypothetical here. I don't think it will actually happen. But I do think that the material so far (and if we just include this music video stuff in with it) could be a sidestep of directly addressing the trilogy, so it ..could be possible? I hope not though. God, ew. No.

Rifneno wrote:Oh!  Re: Strahovski's picture.

You guise!  What if it's not Miranda?  What if it's Oriana?!      

Go back to Scary Door.

Stopped reading after "Andromeda."

Rifneno wrote:Stopped reading after "Andromeda."

Thanks for letting me know.

SwobyJ wrote:

Rifneno wrote:Stopped reading after "Andromeda."

Thanks for letting me know.

Thanks for shutting up about retarded rumors we've discussed to death when we're discussing what is very likely the first tangible data about ME4 and it very clearly is about Shepard.

Or not.  Ya'know, whatever.

Rifneno wrote:

SwobyJ wrote:

Rifneno wrote:Stopped reading after "Andromeda."

Thanks for letting me know.

Thanks for shutting up about retarded rumors we've discussed to death when we're discussing what is very likely the first tangible data about ME4 and it very clearly is about Shepard.

Or not.  Ya'know, whatever.

If you read the post, you'd know that I wasn't actually caring whether it was about Andromeda - it was only an example - and the post was more about the general concept of leaving a gap in player knowledge and letting players believe what they wanted to believe about ME3's ending. That was the point. That's it. Not Ark Theory or 'survey leak' or whatever. I could have just as easily said '(the far future of) the Milky Way' or 'Pinwheel Galaxy' or whatever, since the name of the location wasn't the point, just the easiest name to think of while expressing the idea. I agree that the rumors have been discussed ad nauseam, so if saying the word 'Andromeda' bothered you or anyone else, I apologize for that. It just wasn't what I cared about.

EDIT: "I'm just following a hypothetical here" = Insert anything for this example, I'm only talking about Bioware taking us somewhere/when else and going 'make up your headcanon' still about things like they have for the past few years.

I think I'm a little defensive here just because I know that even I don't want to talk anymore about that rumor stuff seriously, so I'm taking this more personally than I should. Whatever anyway, I said what I wanted to say to everyone.

Retarded rumor is probably true.

That photo with Strahovski seems like a complete non-starter to me. Where did that even come from?

clennon8 wrote:Retarded rumor is probably true.

That photo with Strahovski seems like a complete non-starter to me.  Where did that even come from?

It's called "reading."  You know, top to bottom, left to right. A group of words together is called a "sentence." Take Tylenol for any headaches, Midol for any cramps.

You're the one who seems to be in constant pain. Glad I stopped by. Never change, Rifneno.

clennon8 wrote:You're the one who seems to be in constant pain.  Glad I stopped by.  Never change, Rifneno.

4/10.  Decent attempt at looking clever, but my condition's not exactly a secret around here.

Oh, you mean about the Tylenol?   morphine barely takes the edge off anymore.  It was a movie quote, BTW.  Tommy Boy, 1995.  Good movie.  You should go watch it instead of visiting or something.

Thanks. Your condition isn't a secret anymore? Wow, bold move, telling everyone about your micro-penis. It's okay. You've got a big heart. That's what matters.

Tommy Boy? Saw it. But, y'know, 20 years ago.

clennon8 wrote:Thanks. Your condition isn't a secret anymore? Wow, bold move, telling everyone about your micro-penis. It's okay. You've got a big heart. That's what matters.

Tommy Boy?  Saw it.  But, y'know, 20 years ago.

You'd have to go back a lot farther than 20 years for "you've a small dick!" jokes to be clever.

Besides, with a Bruce Campbell avatar, I'd have figured you still lived in the 90's.

I respect the classics. Your teeny weeny peeny may be out of style, but small dick jokes are timeless.

clennon8 wrote:I respect the classics.  Your teeny weeny peeny may be out of style, but small dick jokes are timeless.

So this is what it's like to have absolutely no wit.  Christ.  The usage of the word "joke" implies he even thinks it's funny.  I've seen some abominations in my time, but nothing like this...

Although I feel we're straying too far from the topic of why you're about three quarters of the way between "average dumb bastard" and "missing multiple chromosomes."  See, what makes the retarded rumor so retarded is that it's completely without merit and based on nothing but fear of the unknown.  We've had nothing that even looks like it's from Bioware that points in that direction.  All we have is some dumbersel-esque "U GUISE, WUT IF X??" hallucinations of reality and some reddit troll stirring the pot by saying he found a survey no one else did and it totally gave away the plot that BW has been keeping an NDA-tight lid on for years.

So yes.  Retarded rumor is retarded.  But what's even more retarded is daft bags of vorcha cocks like you that go around with your "WOE IS ME" bullshit perpetuating it like an episode of mass hysteria fueled by subconscious love of tentacle rape hentai.

Now go away.  You're not worthy of my attention and you disgust me.

I've been saying this since like halfway through the ME3 DLC releases, but this madness has to stop at one point. Look at what it's been doing to us, haha.

DoomsdayDevice wrote:I've been saying this since like halfway through the ME3 DLC releases, but this madness has to stop at one point. Look at what it's been doing to us, haha.

You're right, this sucks.  You know what we haven't done in too long?  Pictures.

@rif: But "bags of vorcha cocks" is witty and hilarious? As is your habitual usage of the word "retarded?"

Anyway, bored now.

Not sure where you got "woe is me" from anything I said, honestly. Yes, I think the rumor has a pretty good chance of being largely true, and I'm perfectly fine with that possibility. The concept is great. It all comes down to execution. Hopefully, they don't take too many cues from DAI, which I was fairly disappointed with.

Rifneno wrote:Also, an amusing note from that.  If humanity built a telescope of enough strength, they could basically see back in time to the Protheans' invasion.  People generally consider vision to be instantaneous but that's only because we're stuck to one planet.  If the Citadel is 50,000 light years away, then the images you're seeing from it are 50,000 years old.  Of course, a telescope that can see that detail from that distance is Star Wars level nonsense but it's an interesting concept.

If you don't find that interesting, here's something to take away from this conversation: many of the stars you see in the sky may have been extinguished while humans were still living in caves.  The light we see from them was given off untold years ago.

I don't think you can control what you're looking at.
I mean, if you're looking for a particular period of time, you need to be at the location where the light emitted from a particular place at a particular time arrives. You also need a prodigiously powerful telescope allowing you to see tiny details.

Nowadays, simply noticing a planet is quite a feat. But watching this planet at a precise time in the past would be closer to a miracle if you're not traveling faster than light to find the precise location which would allow you to see what you searching for.

My 2 cents.

vlad78 wrote:

Rifneno wrote:Also, an amusing note from that.  If humanity built a telescope of enough strength, they could basically see back in time to the Protheans' invasion.  People generally consider vision to be instantaneous but that's only because we're stuck to one planet.  If the Citadel is 50,000 light years away, then the images you're seeing from it are 50,000 years old.  Of course, a telescope that can see that detail from that distance is Star Wars level nonsense but it's an interesting concept.

If you don't find that interesting, here's something to take away from this conversation: many of the stars you see in the sky may have been extinguished while humans were still living in caves.  The light we see from them was given off untold years ago.

I don't think you can control what you're looking at.
I mean, if you're looking for a particular period of time, you need to be at the location where the light emitted from a particular place at a particular time arrives. You also need a prodigiously powerful telescope allowing you to see tiny details.

Nowadays, simply noticing a planet is quite a feat. But watching this planet at a precise time in the past would be closer to a miracle if you're not traveling faster than light to find the precise location which would allow you to see what you searching for.

My 2 cents.

Yes, all true.  It's more a theoretical capacity for such a thing than a practical one.  In fact, perhaps not even that.  After thinking it over, I'm not sure if light degrades over extreme time and distance but I'd wager it does.  Being able to see planets and stars over such vast distances is one thing but being able to see ships fighting may not be possible regardless of telescope strength simply because the image isn't that precise after such a distance.

Hanako Ikezawa wrote:Well, one of the senior developers on the team confirmed it's not a prequel.

user
They need to announce another mass effect asap

Chris Wynn ‏@The1Wynn
@user we already have, the next Mass Effect is currently under development.

user
@The1Wynn prequel or sequel?

Chris Wynn ‏@The1Wynn
@user not a prequel, not necessarily a sequel either.

Well at least maybe that "First Contact War" rumor can die in a fire now.

Now for the Andromeda one to join it...