(XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by CSSteele on Thu Apr 28, 2016 7:09 am

I am leaning more towards Rif here, because there's no way they could have weaved Indoctrination into the plot any thicker without completely breaking it's theme. Given it's supposed to be a slow, subtle change that alters your outlook to make your viewpoint come to line up with the Reapers, anything more would have broken that. We literally ended up having crazy hallucinations, auditory and visual breakdowns in Shepard's reality, and then the final gameplay mechanic we have is a choice between 2 Pro-Reaper options and 1 reject their lies and machinations to end their threat.

How anyone really misses it is beyond me. I've had to explain it to my own brothers. I've even had a coworker who is a heavy gamer -- a self-admitted 'just cares about gameplay rather than the thematic depth of the story being told' kind of gamer -- that missed it, but that was hardly surprising, given he didn't care to dig beyond the surface. [ He picked Synthesis, because truth ]. Anyway, aside from making the aiming-bob even WORSE than it was on Earth already, I can't really think of how they could've made their subtle push to indoctrination any less subtle without breaking the theme.
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by dorktainian on Thu Apr 28, 2016 9:38 am

CSSteele wrote:

How anyone really misses it is beyond me. I've had to explain it to my own brothers. I've even had a coworker who is a heavy gamer -- a self-admitted 'just cares about gameplay rather than the thematic depth of the story being told' kind of gamer -- that missed it, but that was hardly surprising, given he didn't care to dig beyond the surface. [ He picked Synthesis, because truth ]. Anyway, aside from making the aiming-bob even WORSE than it was on Earth already, I can't really think of how they could've made their subtle push to indoctrination any less subtle without breaking the theme.

You see this is the thing. IT works because so many players have been takin in by Indoctrination without realising it. Look at the people who have chosen Control or Synthesis, and look at their reasons for choosing. Reaper Indoctrination working its magic right there.

To us it's obvious, but look at how many people just don't get it.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by Master Blaster on Fri Apr 29, 2016 5:01 pm

dorktainian wrote:
CSSteele wrote:

How anyone really misses it is beyond me. I've had to explain it to my own brothers. I've even had a coworker who is a heavy gamer -- a  self-admitted 'just cares about gameplay rather than the thematic depth of the story being told' kind of gamer -- that missed it, but that was hardly surprising, given he didn't care to dig beyond the surface. [ He picked Synthesis, because truth ]. Anyway, aside from making the aiming-bob even WORSE than it was on Earth already, I can't really think of how they could've made their subtle push to indoctrination any less subtle without breaking the theme.

You see this is the thing.  IT works because so many players have been takin in by Indoctrination without realising it.  Look at the people who have chosen Control or Synthesis, and look at their reasons for choosing.  Reaper Indoctrination working its magic right there.  

To us it's obvious, but look at how many people just don't get it.

You would have people not wanting to kill the geth for they don't deserve to die or EDI as well. However Javik has made it clear that they sacrificed everything just to by time and try to hold out long enough. Though the Prothean race turned out to be assholes, they were right about the Reapers, and they did everything they could to stop the Reapers.

Shepard has had to make hard choices in his life that could have called him/her butcher, a hero, or a true entity of necessary evil. You sacrifice either the council or 1/3's of the First, third and fifth alliance fleets. You either doom the Krogan, support them, kill the geth, kill the quarians, or make peace with them. There are many ways Shepard can be whoever we the player sees fit yet one thing the whole galaxy agrees upon is that the Reapers are monsters that need to be killed.

It is also sickening in Synthesis for HUSK are ALIVE, former people....former other races turned into Reaper ground troops for their gains and logical use of foes corpses or living. Plus if you really are thinking about everyone elses benefits, what about the other races that are WITHIN the Reapers? It is as Javik said as well, ALL the past races are watching this battle unfold right then. If the Reapers are "mere" puppets ( which is bullshit but whatever Bioware), then what right does Shepard have over to enslave the past races inside the Reapers?

A majority of synthesis and control fans see destroy as a genocide act, YET what choices did YOU the player make in the game? Regardless in ME1 Shepard has too choose who lives or dies, shall we conserve fire power or show that humanity is ready to be a protector? Isn't it not a military order that Shepard makes and Joker follows and Hackett?

Hell if our squad-mates were able to talk to Shepard at the end of the game they would be telling us to destroy the red tube. Even Edi would be ready to die to save Jeff and the crew, as would the geth for they have proven to be willing to give up their lives to protect the Quarians in the past, and they even waited for them to come back home.

If people expect for everyone to make it out with this galactic war that is for the survival of organic and synthetic life. Sacrifice has to be made, HELL Duncan from Dragon Age:Origins would pick destroy for he knows his duty and while he doesn't want to personally do things that are seen as " barbaric". He knows there IS no victory without sacrifice.

Yes the star brat assumed organics and synthetics will fight again, BUT if it does, WE decided our fate, not the catalyst, not the Reapers, or even the Leviathans themselves. Free will over that of being forced to be happy, to be forced to live in a "perfect" world where everyone lives together without worry, and that those that tried to kill your, killed your loved ones, and turned them into reaper ground troops are fine in synthesis, and are fine with Shepard controlling the dead in control.

Plus isn't control ironic since THAT is what the leviathans had wanted. To control the organic races to serve their needs, yet in the end failed because of synthetics/ their ultimate creation. Is Shepard not using the Reapers as a means to control the galaxy and either being the "police force" or that of a "dictator"?  What rights do the Reapers have since people argue that "the reapers are just misunderstood" " not their fault"? Oh that is right they have none for in control Shepard uses them to HIS/HER needs, yet wants to use the power to control the galaxy's actions if the "need" arises.

Synthesis can't be forced. We have seen it happen in Overlord when Gavin tried to combine a Geth AI with is living brother. The reapers DESTROYED the Prothean genetic structure to the point they are no longer what they use to be. NOR do we know if the catalyst even CREATED a Prothean reaper, Saren talked about an alliance between organics and machines, yet he claimed we would save more lives that way. However we knew he was indoctrinated and that the Reapers had planted false lies within his mind.

If you look at synthesis you are basically seeing what Saren was thinking from within his mind. A world where organics and machines live together, the Reapers promised him he would be spared, you have impressed them so much that they present this gift to you. You may lose all that you are BUT you will become one with everything.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by ZerebusPrime on Sat Apr 30, 2016 2:58 am

Huh.  How'd I miss this?



Right, because it's just for the ride.

Still, it's called Mass Effect: New Earth and it apparently has a Reaper in it.

....and that's about it.
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by Master Blaster on Mon May 02, 2016 5:05 am

ZerebusPrime wrote:Huh.  How'd I miss this?



Right, because it's just for the ride.

Still, it's called Mass Effect: New Earth and it apparently has a Reaper in it.

....and that's about it.

" will Shepard be alive? Are Joker and the crew looking for Shepard since they took him in the destroy ending? Tune in next time for " The Search for more money that Bioware realized ME survives on Shepard and the Reapers"

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by TurianRebel212 on Wed May 04, 2016 6:24 am

Naw, Sheps dead. Buried in rubble by Mac and Casey's Deus Ex circle jerk and "artistic integrity". EA is holding the shovel, laughing and smoking a phat blunt made from all the butt hurt "retake Mass Effect" members ashes. Then Gamble is over Shep's grave taking a piss while he to smokes a phat blunt, this time it's made from the ashes of the Former IT thread from BSN.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by dorktainian on Thu May 05, 2016 10:27 am

I have often wondered if Bioware are just trolling everyone, and the game is just a continuation of Sheps story. You know, confirming IT!! Wouldn't that be great?

Then again the other side of that, I can also see them doing a SW Battlefront to the ME franchise and it being a shooter because.... they want to rape our wallets even more. If that happens they can kiss my arse.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by Rifneno on Thu May 05, 2016 10:57 am

dorktainian wrote:I have often wondered if Bioware are just trolling everyone, and the game is just a continuation of Sheps story.  You know, confirming IT!!  Wouldn't that be great?

It would be great, but it's just a dream, never to be realized.  I wondered the same myself when the announcement was first made.  And I could see if it being possible if Andromeda was just some piece of info they released.  But it's literally the title of the game.  It'd be like DA:I not being about an inquisition.  The sad truth is, they fucked us.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by TurianRebel212 on Wed May 11, 2016 8:38 am

Well, MEA has officially been delayed into Q1 2017. I think they're struggling with Frostbite probably. That engine is garbage, it's broken beyond repair and has been since 2008. I don't know why EA sucks the Frostbite cock so hard, but yeah.


Also I think they probably have limited or zero narrative cohesion.


I fully expect Mass Effect Andromeda to be a mess, both technically and narratively.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by dorktainian on Wed May 11, 2016 12:39 pm

it'll be a shooter, not an RPG.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by WeAreHarbinger on Wed May 11, 2016 1:19 pm

Narrative wise it was fucked when most of the writers kept leaving and the mass change around happened. Gameplay wise i wouldn't expect any kind of RPG. They probably think giving you 6 choices instead of 3 (Paragon, neutral & Renegade) will count as "RPG" and the rest of the time you just kill shit.


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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by DoomsdayDevice on Wed May 11, 2016 3:37 pm

It's funny how after all this time I still can't find it in me to give a flying fuck about this game.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by Master Blaster on Thu May 12, 2016 4:18 pm

dorktainian wrote:it'll be a shooter, not an RPG.  

Pretty much. " We want to go back to the old roots of exploring"- Bioware Employee.

Anderson: Bullshit.

Basically ME:A is going to be kill some shit in this new universe and pray that no Reapers were sent to destroy this ship. Oh we are turning on eachother now! Great we are having the first contact war all over again. Will the rachnie be in it seeing how there is an option to save their race? Will the Geth be in it seeing how we can save their race? Quarians? Elcor? Hannar? Drell?

I mean shit a lot of races better be on that ship for i am going to call bullshit if this happened at the beginning of the war. Weave would NEVER trust the council and would use them to only make sure the Krogan survived. How the fuck are theses Krogan with us are going to even matter if they won't have the Genophage cured? I mean shit there is a lot of choices and lore that this new game hast to take into account.

Otherwise it is shit hitting the fan. But then again "new ME universe" *cough* only using the former ME universe as a template yet won't give a shit about all the writing the others had put time and effort into up until the ending of ME3 if IT wasn't intended.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by TurianRebel212 on Fri May 13, 2016 12:11 am

How many writers have left the MEA team??  Is Mac "the hack" Walters still in charge?

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by Rifneno on Fri May 13, 2016 5:21 pm

TurianRebel212 wrote:How many writers have left the MEA team??  Is Mac "the hack" Walters still in charge?
I'm not sure he ever was.  That Halo failure guy was the only lead writer, and he's gone.  Camel Warts is probably the de facto leader simply due to his part in the trilogy but in an official capacity we have no reason to believe he's more than just one of the multitude of writers on the project.

Then again, I could be wrong.  I completely stopped giving a single atom of a shit about ME4 when I found out it was Andromeduh so I haven't been paying close attention.

Excuse me, I have to go take up alcoholism.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by TurianRebel212 on Sat May 14, 2016 9:53 am

Rifneno wrote:
TurianRebel212 wrote:How many writers have left the MEA team??  Is Mac "the hack" Walters still in charge?
I'm not sure he ever was.  That Halo failure guy was the only lead writer, and he's gone.  Camel Warts is probably the de facto leader simply due to his part in the trilogy but in an official capacity we have no reason to believe he's more than just one of the multitude of writers on the project.

Then again, I could be wrong.  I completely stopped giving a single atom of a shit about ME4 when I found out it was Andromeduh so I haven't been paying close attention.

Excuse me, I have to go take up alcoholism.

As a somewhat functional alcoholic might I suggest Vodka, probably Stoli or even Sky. Vodka is cheap and relatively clean, hangovers on Vodka aren't as rough as a Whiskey, rum or Wine hangover. Also, it mixes incredibly well with just about any soda or juice.

Vodka GG for pure alcoholic. Enjoy.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by dorktainian on Sat May 14, 2016 12:43 pm

vodka and lime. you wont feel a thing till the fresh air hits you.

on MEA, i picture something along the lines of destiny,but even lamer.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by ZerebusPrime on Mon May 16, 2016 9:14 pm

http://nerdist.com/mass-effect-meets-suicide-squad-in-epic-mash-up/



Mass Effect's high point well remixed.
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by Master Blaster on Wed May 18, 2016 12:25 am

There is one way I can see Bioware recton ME3's ending. Let's say ME:A has the character try to find a new home out there, only to be on the brink of failing. however let's say an ancient race was planning to finish creating a time portal when the Reapers showed up in the galaxy for it was never confirmed or deni the reapers were just confined to one galaxy and i doubt they just waited in deep space and then be like "it's time to harvest after waiting 10,000 years or 50,000" depending how long the Prothean war was.

The new protagonist has a chance to go back to the past and warn them of the failure that is to come, or try to go back in time and bring back the information that can stop the reapers once and for all if it is proven that the Crucible was a trap and that N7 no name is Commander Shepard just indoctrinated.

Then the new protagonist has a chance to save Shepard before he/she gets indoctrinated. Depending on the choices for both games however it will be upon the beam charge scene and war assets will play a huge role in recovering Shepard.

You can also have before going back in time the new character is confronted by Shepard and depending on what ending you picked will decided how that Shepard meets his/her end. Destroy has your Shepard pull the trigger on his/herself. Control is just a regular indoctrinated soldier that is lost. Synthesis is that of after defeating Shepard, Shepard pulls a Saren boss battle and becomes full synthetic. Refuse is Shepard neither fights it, or does nothing. Shepard is broken by the end of the game.

And by saving Shepard you have the option to play as Shepard in the other ME game and they can pull a Dragon Age origings with six possible characters to play as with each different paths they start out with yet have similar common goals. And if they can they can give the player the option to axe off Shepard or the new character if it is presented at the end of the game, or have Shepard be an NPC yet have the personality type of your Shepard. idk but honestly despite how weak or ridiculous it is, that is my hope it will be for ME:A seems like it will be nothing grand or even make sense.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by Guest on Sun May 22, 2016 10:36 pm

ZerebusPrime wrote:Huh.  How'd I miss this?



Right, because it's just for the ride.

Still, it's called Mass Effect: New Earth and it apparently has a Reaper in it.

....and that's about it.

I went on this ride. It was a 4.5-minute flight that felt like a 30-second flight. Overall, pretty underwhelming. My favorite part was the pre-ride interaction between our flight commander, "Conrad Verner," and the audience.

"Conrad": Has anyone here ever traveled outside our solar system?
Chick in audience: Yes!
"Conrad": Oh, really? Where have you traveled to?
Chick in audience: Mars!
Me: ...

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by TurianRebel212 on Thu May 26, 2016 9:59 pm

I really do believe Andromeda is a full fledged reboot, hence why it's been so long between it and ME3. They hope people that hated ME3 and it's shitberg ending have left the series and the people that liked ME3's gameplay mechanics and the Multi-player have stayed and crave more of it.

They won't even mention Shepard. Maybe, maybe a small codex entry hinting at Shepard and The Reaper War, but that's it.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by dorktainian on Fri May 27, 2016 8:44 am

every time i've seen that ship in the trailer, i've thought of this for some reason. The ship design is way too familiar to another ship design for it to be coincidence surely?


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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by TurianRebel212 on Fri May 27, 2016 8:54 am

Eh, I mean it looks like the Citadel, but knowing lazy Bioware they're just reusing past ideas and assets cause it's easy and they're lazy.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by dorktainian on Fri May 27, 2016 9:46 am

TurianRebel212 wrote:Eh, I mean it looks like the Citadel, but knowing lazy Bioware they're just reusing past ideas and assets cause it's easy and they're lazy.

not the Citadel.....



very prothean design imo.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by TurianRebel212 on Fri May 27, 2016 9:59 am

Huh???

Edit:Just saw the pic. Not really, looks more like the Citadel to me, but whatevs.

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