(XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Raistlin Majere wrote:

windsurfing wrote:Oh look they have an excuse now because they said so, nothing more than that really:

Bioware wrote:ODSY DRIVE SYSTEM

With the Arks unable to refuel by traditional means in dark space, the journey to Andromeda is only made possible by the ODSY Drive System. The ODSY is a massive experimental drive core specifically designed for this trans-galactic voyage. It is capable of recycling static energy that would typically cause a starship to explode, instead storing it to power the Ark’s primary systems. Meanwhile, an electromagnetic ram-scoop will gather hydrogen from the Ark’s surroundings, converting it into fuel as needed.

So suddenly they have "developed it" between ME2 and ME3, how convenient....must sell game so.

As you can see they don't give two shits about the lore, anyone who points it out they will simply come up with "oh but the races developed this new experimental thing so...."

The problem is not the technology itself, we have KERS and HERS in the real world today in various automotive and performance racing categories for example, the issue is the initial claim as a limitation for the MEU now it's suddenly no longer a big deal because they need to get to Andromeda. Especially given the fact they are not leaving 600 years after ME3.  Meh

Everything that is a big inconvenience to their original lore established technobabel will now be explained away with similar claims in the end polluting the quality of the original setting in a very cheap way.

I am sure no one in the Milky Way would have loved to get their hands on that technology. The Quarians alone would probably sell half their fleet for the chance to not have to discharge all the freaking time.

And such a breakthrough was just as unnoticed as the ark ships preparing to leave. I mean it is only the solution to a few thousand year old problem in space travel for this cycle, no big deal.

For fuck sakes Bioware...

Edit: To add a bit more to that, I am sure the explanation will be that the drive core is still "experimental." If there were any actual flaws with this new miracle drive core they would not count on it to last for a 600 years journey with no organic supervision...

You would think THIS BIG breakthrough would be USEFUL in a genocidal war against the Reapers...but NOOOOOO.

Rifneno wrote:

CSSteele wrote:I'm not saying they took the core out of it, but Cerberus was studying the Reaper before they went bonkers and before it exploded, there's no reason all of the data from it wasn't saved, that's all I'm saying. Don't the Arks leave before ME2 starts officially anyway?

They sent a science team, and then very quickly lost contact with them.  Because they were indoctrinated and then huskified.  Because that's what happens when you fuck around with a living-but-paralyzed Reaper.  The only time anyone has gotten some real reverse engineering off a Reaper was Sovereign, and that's because he was truly dead and not simply disabled.

Also that would mean they developed the drive core in like...half a year, tops.

ZerebusPrime wrote:Obviously the ODSY drives don't pass the smell test unless 1. you have a backer demanding that they are rushed into service specifically for this ark project and 2. they are far, far too expensive, finicky, or demanding of rare unobtainium for anyone outside of the ark project to realistically utilize.

It's not hard to create scenarios that satisfy the first condition.  The second condition, however, is most probably going to require a suspension of disbelief.  A game can only get away with so many of those, as we all know, but the important point I would make is that it CAN get away with them so long as they are few in number and magnitude.

Would still be the biggest technological breakthrough in centuries, but just like the Ark project, apparently the news conveniently forgot to mention this during ME1 / ME2 / ME3.

More to the point, the static discharge flaw is how the Reapers keep their cattle in their pens.  Defeating a protection the Reapers put in place to control the cycle is not something that's done trivially.

Additionally, depending on how the bypass works, it might be adapted to allow weaponized FTL drives.  Which would win us the war with the Reapers.

Rifneno wrote:Remember, your only problem is some shitty facial animations that could reasonably be polished before release.

BTW, people talked about the facial animations and BW said they're still planning to polish them more before it hits the shelves.

I tell you, it's fucking exhausting being right all the time.

Weren't the Asari sending out long range FTL ships as early as 1600 AD, as per Shadowbroker intel on Samara from Mass Effect 2? Oh wait. It's cut content. That's... not what I remember.

Rifneno wrote:
If you think we're pissed because of the inclusion of same sex relationships (except for TurianJethro, obviously) then you have missed the point so epicly that you and the point are no longer in the same dimension.  

I don't think that. If my post gave that impression then I apologise because that was not my intent. I actually think that the vast majority of people here have the same issues with ME:Andromeda's whole premise as I do. I just agree with Doomsday that of the many, many problems that seem to exist with this game, the character's sexual orientations are not, per se, among them (at least not if those characters are well written, which may or may not turn out to be the case).

Remember, your only problem is some shitty facial animations that could reasonably be polished before release.

No that was just my issue with that particular video. It was just the easiest thing to pick on and I felt like taking the piss out of it. You are correct that it's not the main problem. My main issue with ME Andromeda itself is, like I said, the same thing that seems to bother everyone else. That they are making a mess of the lore in order to avoid making a proper sequel to ME3 and are apparently leaving that story forever unfinished. In so doing I think that they are throwing away what was once a very promising fictional universe.

We all agree on the same thing. Andromeda = a fucking cop out.

the dialogue in that gameplay trailer, the awful fucking dialogue of femryder........ My fucking god it's awful. Like a small child not getting its own way....



FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK!!

They can't make a sequel to ME3 because ME3 was the end of the trilogy.

magnetite wrote:They can't make a sequel to ME3 because ME3 was the end of the trilogy.

It was not.

It wasn't? A trilogy is three titles in sequence, with the third being the final one.

I think that trilogies can themselves have sequels, either as standalone works or a new sequence of works. This has, after all, been the case with Star Wars, which was a complete trilogy until they decided to make more films, set both before and after. And if any work ever needed a direct sequel to sort out it's hanging plot threads then I'd say that ME3 would qualify.

Not sure how a direct sequel would work either, because the EC fills in the gaps between the final choice and the credits. Essentially explains what happened to the galaxy after the final choice was made. An epilogue of sorts.

off subject slightly, but this is how you do a trailer, and this is some serious feels.

magnetite wrote:It wasn't? A trilogy is three titles in sequence, with the third being the final one.

To them it was, but to us it wasn't. I'm also on the side who thinks the EC only made it worse.

magnetite wrote:They can't make a sequel to ME3 because ME3 was the end of the trilogy.

Then they fucked up the ending and left enough questions and problems to continue.

Also a Trilogy easily be simply a story within a universe contained within that trilogy, but with new stories on either side.

The Metroid Prime Trilogy for instance. The story of all three games center around the properties of the element Phazon and the creature Metroid Prime. By the end, both of these elements are solved. Yet stories exist on both ends of that trilogy, sure not all those games are well liked, but they exist.

However, admittedly, it would be very, very hard to continue Shepard's story as our theories go without involving the Reapers. Still the main focus could be elsewhere, like, I dont know, a galaxy rebuilding after the war?

magnetite wrote:Not sure how a direct sequel would work either, because the EC fills in the gaps between the final choice and the credits. Essentially explains what happened to the galaxy after the final choice was made. An epilogue of sorts.

Yeah, that slideshow told us so much.

People look at charts and stars, there are Rachni on some world, the Citadel is rebuilt...that slideshow was so devoid of any true meaning it was almost hilarious.

Also correct me if I am wrong, but does the breath scene not happen after the slideshow? Because if so it throws the entire idea of a linear timeline to the wind...or Shepard had a very, very long nap.

Jusseb wrote:

magnetite wrote:It wasn't? A trilogy is three titles in sequence, with the third being the final one.

To them it was, but to us it wasn't. I'm also on the side who thinks the EC only made it worse.

If it made it worse, then there's probably no point adding more to it.

However, admittedly, it would be very, very hard to continue Shepard's story as our theories go without involving the Reapers. Still the main focus could be elsewhere, like, I dont know, a galaxy rebuilding after the war?

It would be hard to make a game out of that because it relies on Shepard being alive, and if you picked control, synthesis, refuse or even the low EMS destroy (where the Crucible kills everything and everyone with a huge wave of fire) the galaxy is basically turned into Reaper husks/controlled, so the enemy wins and there would be no rebuilding going on. So in order to play the new game, people would need to have the galaxy in one piece (eg. high EMS destroy). It hinges on a single choice determining whether you can even import into the next game.

Also correct me if I am wrong, but does the breath scene not happen after the slideshow? Because if so it throws the entire idea of a linear timeline to the wind...or Shepard had a very, very long nap.

It would imply that Shepard imagined it (destroy), or the Reapers showed him what they wanted him to see (control, synthesis).

magnetite wrote:

However, admittedly, it would be very, very hard to continue Shepard's story as our theories go without involving the Reapers. Still the main focus could be elsewhere, like, I dont know, a galaxy rebuilding after the war?

It would be hard to make a game out of that because it relies on Shepard being alive, and if you picked control or synthesis, the galaxy is basically turned into Reaper husks/controlled, so the enemy wins and there would be no rebuilding going on. So in order to play the new game, people would need to have the galaxy in one piece (eg. high EMS destroy). It hinges on a single choice determining whether you can even import into the next game.

Or, you know, enforce a standard ending?

I know it is not a popular concept with games focused around making your choices matter, but sooner or later you have to sit back and decide what is needed to built the next game and what would just hold back potential story telling.

A sequel to Mass Effect 3, while I would love it if it followed on our ideas, would be severily limited if it had to take everything the player could do into account. Just the potential outcomes of the Geth / Quarians would make it insanely hard to involve them in any meaningful way since there is so much variance in the status of those species.

One could also let people import their doomed saves, have them sit through the galaxy go to shit and then offer them to change that last key choice so they can play the game. Show them how much they fucked up and then give them the option of changing the choice so they could play.

It is not an insurmountable wall, one just need to decide what is necesary for the next game and what is not.

I think this is one of the reasons they're starting fresh with Andromeda, so they can avoid all that stuff.

Even if you import into this next game from #3, after you finish it, you'll import that into game 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10....

There was really only three games to import into (1->2->3), not infinite, or until they pull the plug the franchise and stop making games.

hallo wie gehts? Ok, I hope it is ok to the new person to write here. Actually I'm not new. Short version of who I am: Just another player who disliked the ending (to put it very very lightly), was a active member of BSN forums before it was a river of bullshit, I tried to write something from time to time after thier changes to the forum, but I've had enough of those ass licking members who in the actual fuck liked the end-fucking-ing of ME3, and thier sick excitement for upcoming Andro-Scheiße-meda. and of course I'm supporter of IT (the ONLY logical explenation of that crap). So when they forbide to write anything about thier brilliant ending ? (was that bullshit an ending ?)  I've ended up here. I was regular reader of this forum, then not regular, had a break, again regular etc. I'm amazed that this place is still holding up and you people are writing very good points/posts/articles about IT, PlotHoleWARE, and Mass Effect. However my boiling point reached it maxium, after that last materials and the fact that I've recently completed again trilogy and watched materiales about IT again. It was time to actually write something a take part in the discussion rather than just sit and read.   So here I am writing something.    
Now it is time to get to the point.

Mass Effect: Andromeda is going to be obviously political correctly game with lots leftwing stuff, will add more plot holes to the enormously big ocen of plot holes, will contain ugly asari, and much more and the most obvious fact it will be SpaceQuistion. Before they showed anything about ME:A , I must say I somehow belived that the next game will take IT seriously or they will make a game that will earn them their beloved money, and then they will do proper game Mass Effect 4 or something (how stupid I was). But then it came out that it will be set after trilogy and they showed their crap. At his point It Was very clear to me that are going to add more bullshit to the existing bullshit. Now I don't know how any sane person could explain all the existing world of shit.  Even if Mass Effect 4 will be ever created and it will be a sequel with Shepard. How they could explain (like it was mentioned) all that crap about having VERY advanced technology and not using it in the biggest war of wars, and many other crap. I'm also amazed how stupid they are with upcoming novels in ME universe. After that last crap-book  Mass Effect Deception ? How they can think that taking another greenhorn (in ME saga) will be a success ?  
So as for the first post I think it is enough
Cheers everybody.

JFC. Of course the shitty animations aren't the only problem with this game. I thought that would go without saying. We were discussing that specific gameplay trailer, and the animation was one of the things that stood out. Just like the terrible dialogue etc.

I haven't played any Dragon Age games, so I have no idea what all this stuff about transgenders in games is all about. But I'm guessing it's causing lore problems and has nothing to do with hating the gaylords. Except in Turian's case.

Someone posted this in chat yesterday describing the current state of Bioware.  I should go share.

Eryri wrote:I don't think that. If my post gave that impression then I apologise because that was not my intent. I actually think that the vast majority of people here have the same issues with ME:Andromeda's whole premise as I do. I just agree with Doomsday that of the many, many problems that seem to exist with this game, the character's sexual orientations are not, per se, among them (at least not if those characters are well written, which may or may not turn out to be the case).

No that was just my issue with that particular video. It was just the easiest thing to pick on and I felt like taking the piss out of it. You are correct that it's not the main problem. My main issue with ME Andromeda itself is, like I said, the same thing that seems to bother everyone else. That they are making a mess of the lore in order to avoid making a proper sequel to ME3 and are apparently leaving that story forever unfinished. In so doing I think that they are throwing away what was once a very promising fictional universe.

Sorry, I might be a bit over-bitchy lately.  Real life doing a thing.  Anyway, the cosmetic complaints with ME:A shouldn't even be a thing yet IMO.  They're minor, polish points.  Having spot-on facial animations or that sort of thing is a great new addition but technology hasn't been important to this genre since the switch to optical media back with the 5th console generation.  Final Fantasy VII always comes up in the "Best RPG in history" discussions for a good reason.  I've seen more grown men moved to tears at Aeris' death scene than anything else.  And that entire game had less polygons than today's characters' shoelaces.  When video game romances come up, such as around Valentine's Day, Fei & Elly tend to dominate because even though maybe a quarter of the discussion participants have even played Xenogears, they all unequivocally consider it the best.  And like FF7, this was released on a system less powerful than a decent modern calculator.  Facial animation?  Their entire heads were like 7 pixels.

My point is this: all this fancy bullshit only serves an RPG in its ability to immerse the player.  Photo-realistic graphics, complex physics engines, thousands of voiced lines, this is all completely worthless if the core of the game and its story is not pulling the player in.  If the storytelling is bad, it doesn't matter.  Everyone that's complaining about stuff like facial animations, they're complaining about the color the couch when the house is on fire.  I mean, sure, it's fun to get all your vitroil in one place.  I'll never not make fun of DA2 dropping enemies down from the rooftops like an early 90's beat-em-up sidescroller, but it's not my primary complaint and I'd never say "shut up about how bad the meat and bones of it are when there's shitty garnish".

If there's one thing I've learned about the cancer of SJWs, it's that the "wait and see" attitude never works.  Every time I've heard "wait and see, just because some of the writers are SJWy doesn't mean it'll be that bad", it turns out to be even worse than I could've imagined.  Not some time, EVERY time.  Without fail.  Remember FemThor?  Remember what happened when we "gave it a chance?"  We got this, and AIDS:

magnetite wrote:They can't make a sequel to ME3 because ME3 was the end of the trilogy.

magnetite wrote:Not sure how a direct sequel would work either, because the EC fills in the gaps between the final choice and the credits. Essentially explains what happened to the galaxy after the final choice was made. An epilogue of sorts.

If it happens between talking to Stardouche and Shepard waking up in rubble, it didn't happen.

dorktainian wrote:off subject slightly, but this is how you do a trailer, and this is some serious feels.

Great.  Another Last of Us.  I was worried we'd run out of lameass clichés but here comes Ellen Page with another infinite of them.  Fan-fucking-tastic.  

magnetite wrote:If it made it worse, then there's probably no point adding more to it.

I've seen better logic in defense of scientology.

magnetite wrote:It would be hard to make a game out of that because it relies on Shepard being alive, and if you picked control, synthesis, refuse or even the low EMS destroy (where the Crucible kills everything and everyone with a huge wave of fire) the galaxy is basically turned into Reaper husks/controlled, so the enemy wins and there would be no rebuilding going on. So in order to play the new game, people would need to have the galaxy in one piece (eg. high EMS destroy). It hinges on a single choice determining whether you can even import into the next game.

magnetite wrote:I think this is one of the reasons they're starting fresh with Andromeda, so they can avoid all that stuff.

Because they're cowards?  Yes, I agree.

Der Wahnsinn wrote:*stuff*

Welcome to the madhouse.

Before they showed anything about ME:A , I must say I somehow belived that the next game will take IT seriously or they will make a game that will earn them their beloved money, and then they will do proper game Mass Effect 4 or something (how stupid I was).

Really?  Honestly, I don't understand how anyone held out any hope after the "Andromeda" part was announced.  I mean, Andromeda literally started out as a joke about the only way BW could be so cowardly as to avoid addressing the endings and still make a sequel.  Everyone else here had already given up hope ME4 would be any good or answer anything but I always argued we didn't know enough to make a judgment... until they announced "Andromeda".  Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'entrate.

Even if Mass Effect 4 will be ever created and it will be a sequel with Shepard. How they could explain (like it was mentioned) all that crap about having VERY advanced technology and not using it in the biggest war of wars, and many other crap.

I think the chances of this are virtually zero.  It's been just under 5 years since ME3.  Half a fucking decade and they still refuse to address it.  If they won't touch it after this long, I doubt they ever will.  And that's if BW even still exists in the future.  There's been a lot of talk that this or the mysterious "new IP" may be their last game.

Yes, you can't import into ME3 with Shepard dead in ME2. Same deal for a sequel if there ever was one.

I think one of the biggest problem with Andromeda, is Mass Effect in the title. Remove "Mass Effect" make a new space IP called just "Andromeda", game about journey into the new galaxy of course without any references to Mass Effect universe, new aliens and this could be an interesting title (nothing more). Things like technical issues, I agree they should not be a big thing right now, we all know that the game in nowadays becomes a GOLD after few patches (like Dragon Age Inquisition, it was playable to me after few patches or any modern Battlefield), but it can be a little bit disturbing especially when you know it is a game made by BioWare. Anyway it has be Mass Effect, that means obvious profit (for now).

Rifneno wrote:
Really?  Honestly, I don't understand how anyone held out any hope after the "Andromeda" part was announced.  I mean, Andromeda literally started out as a joke about the only way BW could be so cowardly as to avoid addressing the endings and still make a sequel.  Everyone else here had already given up hope ME4 would be any good or answer anything but I always argued we didn't know enough to make a judgment... until they announced "Andromeda".  Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'entrate.

unfortunately yes,

Rifneno wrote:
I think the chances of this are virtually zero.  It's been just under 5 years since ME3.  Half a fucking decade and they still refuse to address it.  If they won't touch it after this long, I doubt they ever will.  And that's if BW even still exists in the future.  There's been a lot of talk that this or the mysterious "new IP" may be their last game.

I wonder what the fuck are they thinking, I mean, Yes It has been almost a five years since Mass Effect 3 came out and almost five years since the biggest divide among fans of ME. Are their goal was to actually divide the fan base ? with that crap (i mean ending), or they just wanted so badly a new fan base for their new games that they showed us a huge middle finger ?  They had a really good chance to make ME trilogy  the best game ever created, but no artistic integrity and that kind of bullshit, how the fuck this can be an ending, people can disagree with many things about IT but there are some points that cannot be disproved like Shepard should be dead, end of discussion. It was not another episode of Dragon Ball, Shepard is not super saiyan.  What is the point ?
And now they are making that cop out and some "mysterious" IP. I just don't get it.
As for the BioWare that volus exhaust the topic.

Well the ideal of Shepard's story continuing doesn't mean it will be so long with choices. Most of the side choices were resolved in ME3 since so many died, and much was put into as war assets. The only one i'd want to know is if the the couple we helped out with either telling her to get her son the medical treatment if they survived the war. The major choices would be what political sides you took during the war with the Reapers, and who was in charge.

Also who really died in the final battle that we do not see in the end.

Could have had another Krogan rebellion a few years after if Weave was in-charge, have leviathans try grasping for power, have the Salarians be the ones to rebel if you put Wrex in charge. etc