Compilation of Unanswered questions

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Re: Compilation of Unanswered questions

Post by Dwailing on Fri Mar 29, 2013 7:11 pm

Eryri wrote:
ZerebusPrime wrote:Here's one. May need rewording.

When Shepard first calls for an evac, Joker replies with "We're taking heavy casualties up here" and then cuts to static. Then immediately afterward, Joker replies that they are on their way and BAM there is the Normandy.

So why the cut to static? Why the inconsistency between the two responses?

Yes, the Normandy pick up is the single thing I find most ridiculous and immersion breaking about the EC. It's like they they knew they had to find some way to account for the favoured squad-mates being on Gilligan's planet, but absolutely could not be asked to think up a remotely plausible one.

I think that was a hallucination. I think that a shuttle came and picked up the team, and Shepard thought it was the Normandy. Either that, or they were knocked out, and Shepard hallucinated the evacuation in order to justify moving on.

Edit: Le top! Banshee

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Re: Compilation of Unanswered questions

Post by Eryri on Fri Mar 29, 2013 7:37 pm

Dwaling wrote:

I think that was a hallucination. I think that a shuttle came and picked up the team, and Shepard thought it was the Normandy. Either that, or they were knocked out, and Shepard hallucinated the evacuation in order to justify moving on.


That is sort of what I head-canon too. I like to think that Shepard gets knocked out at the transport crash, but unfortunately it's not a proper "fade to white" dream transition there. The lights go out, so it's a sort of "fade to black" but I'm concious that I want to believe that any hallucination starts there, just because I find the pick up so awful, rather than because it fits into any consistent pattern.
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Re: Compilation of Unanswered questions

Post by Master Blaster on Fri Mar 29, 2013 7:42 pm

SO when are we going to post this. I know it's today, but when?

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Re: Compilation of Unanswered questions

Post by Ghost Of Kesak11 on Fri Mar 29, 2013 8:18 pm

I plan to post this at about 7:00 PM which is in about 3 hours from this post. It is currently 4:18 PM EST.

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Re: Compilation of Unanswered questions

Post by Andromidius on Fri Mar 29, 2013 8:25 pm

The weird thing is, they have the Normandy crash on this 'perfect new world'.

...and then they leave almost immediately anyway.

The scene is COMPLETELY POINTLESS FILLER. We're not even told what planet it is they apparently landed on!

Clarity and closure my fucking arse.
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Re: Compilation of Unanswered questions

Post by Ghost Of Kesak11 on Fri Mar 29, 2013 8:25 pm

Should I make this 2 diffrent posts on bsn, one for the long list and the other for the short one. Mabye I could combine the posts? Any ideas would be helpful.

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Re: Compilation of Unanswered questions

Post by Andromidius on Fri Mar 29, 2013 8:29 pm

One single huge post, with a TL;DR at the top.

Also, I think the 'Normandy pickup' is a hallucination as well. Its suspected many details during London and Cronos are also waking hallucinations.

It makes more sense for the wounded to be evacuated by a shuttle. Which would also explain how the 'Normandy' landed in such a tight area, and why two soldiers dismount down the gangway to give covering fire (though from what...) as no other soldiers are seen onboard the Normandy at any time (you could assume they are crewmembers, but we never see them do this at any other point, even when the Normandy is in battle or being boarded).
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Re: Compilation of Unanswered questions

Post by Eryri on Fri Mar 29, 2013 8:33 pm

I'm not suggesting we should send this next question to Bioware, because it's a bit long, and a bit political and therefore likely to make tempers flare, but I thought I would get this off my chest here:

Mass Effect has previously seemed to be a series with a liberal moral sensibility akin to classic space operas such as Star Trek, and its spin-offs, particularly Star Trek: The Next Generation. One of the abiding themes of these series is their respect for different cultures, view points and philosophies. This theme was perhaps most concisely expressed by Patrick Stewart's character Captain Picard, in one episode concerning a clash between two cultures:

"It is the differences that have made us strong."

Mass Effect has appeared to echo these themes, particularly during the Geth and Rannoch story arcs, when we learn that the Geth are not the synthetic bogey men that the Quarians (and those of us who played through ME1) believed them to be. In fact they were a very different but equally valid form of life, who merely wished to fulfil their potential, without causing harm to others.

However, this theme is apparently turned on its head by what is supposedly the "perfect" ending to the game; the Synthesis ending. This ending expresses the theme that organics and synthetics will never peacefully co-exist, without a radical, universe-changing intervention by Shepard, which forcibly makes organics and synthetics more similar to each other, minimising their differences. Since speculative fiction is only meaningful when viewed as an allegory or exploration of real life issues, this could be viewed as a statement that differences between human cultures or groups are detrimental to the peaceful co-existence of those groups, and those differences should therefore be minimised for the greater good.

This seems akin to suggesting that the way to combat friction between straight and gay people, for example, is to force everyone to become bisexual, rather than merely accepting that being gay is a perfectly valid way to live one's life. It is like suggesting that a group maintaining a minority language and cultural identity, (say, Welsh, to use another example relevant to my day to day life), is a barrier to integration with the larger population. That people should abandon their own unique traditions and culture, no matter how rich and life affirming they may be, to aid in their integration with a larger hegemony.

Rather than celebrating the variety of human life, we should apparently work to minimise that variety, and make it as uniform and homogeneous as possible. This seems a profoundly illiberal, repressive and retrogressive philosophy. Is this really what Bioware were trying to promote with the supposedly "best" ending to Mass Effect 3?
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Re: Compilation of Unanswered questions

Post by skillz1986 on Sat Mar 30, 2013 12:12 am

@ Eryri

I sure as shit hope it's not. Otherwise they'll have far bigger problems than fan rage over a (most likely) botched ending. And deservingly so, i might add.
EDIT: spelling

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Re: Compilation of Unanswered questions

Post by Ghost Of Kesak11 on Sat Mar 30, 2013 12:30 am

Im sorry I missed the timeframe I said. Fell asleep for a few hours and missed it. Now lets see if I can get this out tonight.

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Re: Compilation of Unanswered questions

Post by Ghost Of Kesak11 on Sat Mar 30, 2013 12:32 am

Anyone else have anything they want to add to the TL;DR section?



Last edited by Kesak11 on Sat Mar 30, 2013 12:36 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Compilation of Unanswered questions

Post by Eryri on Sat Mar 30, 2013 12:36 am

@skillz1986 - Actually all the literal endings have pretty unpleasant themes (slavery, genocide, fatalism), I was just picking on synthesis as it supposedly requires the most work to achieve (bar Destroy with the breath scene).

I don't think anyone at Bioware actually believes in synthesis in that way. I just don't think they thought it through at all, at least not if we're meant to take it literally. They just thought that it superficially seemed like a happy ending because you can unite both forms of life, but they didn't look into it deeply enough to see how creepily conformist it is.

Of course hopefully this point is moot, because Synthesis is supposed to be creepy. I would actually be thoroughly relieved to find out that synthesis is a Reaper trap.
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Re: Compilation of Unanswered questions

Post by Eryri on Sat Mar 30, 2013 12:47 am

Kesak11 wrote:Anyone else have anything they want to add to the TL;DR section?


I can't think of anything just now. The list is looking pretty good. Maybe put the TL:DR at the top, and perhaps substitute the word "fewer" in place of "less" in the phrase "Does this look like less questions than answers to you?". Sorry, that's my inner grammar-pedant talking.
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Re: Compilation of Unanswered questions

Post by Ghost Of Kesak11 on Sat Mar 30, 2013 12:57 am

Well i was never known for my good grammar Smile .


I will probably be posting this in about 30 minutes. Until then I will be able to edit things in the post.

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Re: Compilation of Unanswered questions

Post by Ghost Of Kesak11 on Sat Mar 30, 2013 1:15 am

About 15 minutes until post. In fact I am putting it in BSN's post new topic. Going over it to remove any more notes that I put in and other mistakes.

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Re: Compilation of Unanswered questions

Post by Rifneno on Sat Mar 30, 2013 1:16 am

One stupid little thing will always bother me. Not ending or IT related.

Why does Harbinger not have a middle tentacle?

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Re: Compilation of Unanswered questions

Post by Ghost Of Kesak11 on Sat Mar 30, 2013 1:22 am

Rifneno wrote:One stupid little thing will always bother me. Not ending or IT related.

Why does Harbinger not have a middle tentacle?
Now that I think about that its a good question. Harbinger

5 mins

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Re: Compilation of Unanswered questions

Post by Ghost Of Kesak11 on Sat Mar 30, 2013 1:29 am


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Re: Compilation of Unanswered questions

Post by SZKSYPCZE on Sat Mar 30, 2013 6:48 am

So, what have we achieved???
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Re: Compilation of Unanswered questions

Post by skillz1986 on Sat Mar 30, 2013 8:18 am

Eryri wrote:@skillz1986 - Actually all the literal endings have pretty unpleasant themes (slavery, genocide, fatalism), I was just picking on synthesis as it supposedly requires the most work to achieve (bar Destroy with the breath scene).

I don't think anyone at Bioware actually believes in synthesis in that way. I just don't think they thought it through at all, at least not if we're meant to take it literally. They just thought that it superficially seemed like a happy ending because you can unite both forms of life, but they didn't look into it deeply enough to see how creepily conformist it is.

Of course hopefully this point is moot, because Synthesis is supposed to be creepy. I would actually be thoroughly relieved to find out that synthesis is a Reaper trap.

Still, we live in politically correct times. And as a games developer who has the means to reach out to a lot of people, the message you are trying to spread has be carfully thought out, especially a develeoper like Bioware. So even if it is not what they have intended, if the ending is to be taken at face value "they did not think it through" is no excuse.

And don't get me wrong, i'm not all for excessive political correctness (i am not "allowed" to say "black mark"...seriously?)
But the themes represented in control and synthesis (literal) are such blatant violations against every kind of correctness, it's not even funny.

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Re: Compilation of Unanswered questions

Post by Eryri on Sat Mar 30, 2013 11:38 am

skillz1986 wrote:And as a games developer who has the means to reach out to a lot of people, the message you are trying to spread has be carfully thought out, especially a develeoper like Bioware. So even if it is not what they have intended, if the ending is to be taken at face value "they did not think it through" is no excuse.


You'll get no argument from me. If the endings were a mistake, it's pretty depressing that they can't own up to that mistake, even if it's too late to correct it. But that's corporate culture for you - never admit liability for anything.
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Re: Compilation of Unanswered questions

Post by demersel on Sat Mar 30, 2013 12:12 pm

Andromidius wrote:The weird thing is, they have the Normandy crash on this 'perfect new world'.

...and then they leave almost immediately anyway.

The scene is COMPLETELY POINTLESS FILLER. We're not even told what planet it is they apparently landed on!

Clarity and closure my fucking arse.

Andro - that is exactly the clarification the EC gave - those scenes are just filler and placeholders, and while in the original endings - they could be left at that - with the EC - they simply cannot -

EC is this - "look, guys, so here's what happens, and this and this, but it all doesn't really matter, because...."
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Re: Compilation of Unanswered questions

Post by Ghost Of Kesak11 on Sun Mar 31, 2013 9:26 pm

This thread is done so I will move it off of announcement since I figured out how to do that. I will keep it open for comments though.

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Re: Compilation of Unanswered questions

Post by DoomsdayDevice on Sun Mar 31, 2013 10:25 pm

Awesome, bookmarking. =)

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Re: Compilation of Unanswered questions

Post by Andromidius on Tue Apr 02, 2013 11:30 am

Some of the replies on that thread are so mind numbling stupid.

Especially the one who says IT is dead, and thus proves the Breath Scene is on the Citadel.

Eh... An incorrect piece of 'evidence' used to prove something that isn't remotely proven and is infact still impossible?

That's as dumb as me saying "your hetrosexuality is disproven, therefore means you have herpes". Complete fucking nonsense.
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Re: Compilation of Unanswered questions

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