(XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

vlad78 wrote:

TurianRebel212 wrote:

vlad78 wrote:

Rifneno wrote:

TurianRebel212 wrote:

Rifneno wrote:

TurianRebel212 wrote:Pretty much. I mean, Javik basically tells you that The Crucible was sabotaged by indoctrinated agents in his cycle. And yet we find the schematics of the fucking thing on Mars.... Just as the Reapers are invading and it just so happens that someone very closely associated With Commander Shepard found them...... I mean. Come on now, I mean one coincidence or a couple, alright. But this game has so many major things that just seem to somehow find Shepard. Somehow.

You know who told Liara about the Crucible?  Glyph.  That super advanced piece of technology that's designed to be used by anyone that finds it without understanding how it works.  You know, just like the Citadel and the mass relays.  ...  Or the Crucible.  Huh.  Reaper tech always seems to fit that concise little description.

I've never thought about that. Maybe that's how Cerberus really found Liara and the Shadow Broker Base. Glyph was communicating with his fellow Reaper drones, it actually makes sense, lol.

Well there's definitely no question that Cerberus has a yet unexplained but major leak in the SB's organization.

Scary door.
Or the Shadow Broker organization belonged to someone else before the former shadow broker was killed by the yagh.

Someone or something who also pulled the strings behind Cerberus.

Someone who would find it convenient to have Liara T'soni, an Asari, at the helm with a Drell backing her up.  A drell a bit similar to Thane, the one who quoted Thomas Hobbes and worshipped a deity from the deep.

Someone or something who built the SB organization like a network, similar to the prothean beacon network, identical to the Rachni network, identical to the Thorian network...

Why honeycombs on the shadow broker ship, a ship using unknown tech, a ship older than the takeover by the yagh? Why honeycombs just like those used on the QEC? whereas there are no honeycombs inside the reaper in ME2?

lol
I'm sure you have a wonderful explanation about plotholes and reapers and of course everything else has to be irrelevant.

Naw, I'm just an IT type of guy. The only difference is that I think it began way prior to ME3. The DIRECT IN YOUR FACE symptoms didn't start manifesting in Shepard until ME3(Hallucinations, Dreams, Ghost Kid, Reaper growls, the ending, ect, ect) but there have been more subtle hints in ME2. I always go back to ME2, as that's the beginning of the "Shepard" Saga for me. What came out of the fire? What came back from the dead? And why does it have memories? How does it have memories? (Shepard was brain dead, that's what happens in ebullism, soft tissues and organs literally boil, and the brain is some of the softest tissues in the body). Listening to the logs of Miranda, it sounded like Shepard was literally nothing but a burnt up, fucked up piece of meat, so fucked up that they couldn't even tell if it was male or female. FUCKED UP BEYOND ALL REPAIR.

And yet.... There it is. Walking. Talking. Acting like Shepard. Remember things. Or... Not (As it's an option for the player too NOT remember things that ME1 Shepard did.... Interesting). I mean, it moves, fights and acts like Shepard. It sounds like Shepard. But... There are literally CRACKS in the surface-



What is this thing?

And it's brought to life by Cerberus no less... The evil fucks from ME1 that were like experimenting with husks and shit to make a super soldier...... Said organization is ran by a dude that like 30 or so years earlier got "touched" by an incredibly powerful Reaper artifact that made him smarter and able to speak tons of languages and gave him these fucked up, uber creepy eyes..... (Why even include this information in the lore, if you're not hinting or telling us something about Cerberus and TIM???)

The cracks are not just physical. Nope. In ME3 the cracks are beginning to show psychologically. Somethings not quite right with "Shepard" by the time good ole' ME3 rolls around. It does things. Things that the player HAS NO CONTROL OVER (Think about that). Dreams.... Being unarmed. BEING FORCED, literally by the game to NOT have weapons at certain points.

"I never give up my guns"

Yeah.... Sure you don't, "Shepard"

The cut convo with Ashley is telling, they cut it for a reason in my opinion, it would be so obvious by then and there would be no "speculation from everyone" that BioWare so loves to initiate.

It's beginning to question it's very existence and origins. Now we get a taste of it on Cronos Station in the logs and Shepard's reaction, and the entire main mission in Citadel DLC is very symbolic, as is the entire thing, but it's very covered up or just not really mentioned.

This always bugged me, it's really the only thing that did bug me about ME2.

Just what the fuck is this thing I'm playing as?

I mean, this shit writes itself really. There's so much legit, lore based evidence pointing to Shepard 2.0 being an indoctrinated agent tasked as this cycles great betrayer. Why fight your enemy when you can lure them to a place of your choosing. Why engage a galactic wide battle when you can have the perfect trojan horse do the work for you.....

"The Crucible is a trap".... Naw, not really.

"The Citadel is a trap and a reaper making device. It's a trap"! Yeah, kind of. But it needs someone to, you know, ACTIVATE it.

"Cerberus are the evil indoctrinated agents of this cycle. They're the betrayers!". Yes. But they're just the pawns, put there to move the chosen one along on his/her journey.

When skeptics of IT doubt what IT is saying, I always go back to this:

Well, why did TIM not fire off the citadel himself. Why did TIM not activate it? Why does he "NEED" Shepard to understand? Why? If it's all legit and real, then that makes no sense and even for suspension of disbelief it's.... Problematic.

Answer: Because he can't. ONLY Shepard can. Just like Shepard can only speak to Leviathan. Just like Shepard can only enter the geth sphere. Just like Shepard can only break others indoctrination. Just like Shepard has the cipher. Only Shepard. Shepard is the chosen one. The "anomaly". Shepard was always suppose to activate the citadel. Sheapard was always suppose to ascend and talk to Space Brat. Shepard was ALWAYS suppose to choose a "path". As "the paths are open. You must choose".

YOU EVOLVE ALONG THE PATHS WE DESIRE

It was always going to be Shepard. Always.

"Shepard, you cannot escape your destiny"

Right. Left. Middle. Nothing. It doesn't matter. You already did what you were suppose to do.

Find it. Check

Build it. Check.

Bring them. Check.

Activate it. Check.


The rest..... Well, it's just dust on cosmic winds.

On a side note. This just kinda came to me, but you know us IT'ers are alway like. "Destroy, High EMS destroy that is, is the only way to break indoctrination and wake up. You hold your morals and values and stand firm and destroy what you know is evil. It's the only way. Hence the N7 breathe scene, showing Shepard take a breath and waking up....".

Well, what I think BW is doing is that they're basically gonna say that Shepard's cycle was lost completely. Shepard had failed. No matter the choice and path you chose. Maybe that's why the next game is taken place in Adromeda. Cause... The Milky way is being reaper soup and shit.


What if... The N7 breathe scene isn't Shepard but the N7 character in the Trailer?

By choosing destroy, you held up what you thought was the moral choice. But in the end the game was rigged. The cards were stacked against you... The house always wins. But bioware gave us a little hint that it will continue (The N7 scene)

"What does N7 mean to you".....

*I know BioWare said that the character we see in the trailer is not the main character that the player play's. Well.... I don't believe them. I think that's just more misdirection buy the kings of misdirection. It's what they do*

X marks the spot...

There's a massive continuity leap from the end of mass effect 3 to mass effect andromeda. Surely they would have to show some information as to how we ended up at that point in some kind of prologue?

FWIW I still think the N7 is shepard. It's just sodamn similar to the ME3 trailer for it not to be. I still say the N7 in the suit from the trailer a year ago was Shepard (difficult to see through that visor but it deffo was him). Maybe that was from a prologue of sorts. I dunno.

Let's assume Shepard is still alive, but indoctrinated.

Shepard is on a mission... Maybe he's going to kill anyone affected by reapers or reaper artifacts as well? Like a purge on anything reaper like technologically. Don't forget the reapers eradicate all technology after the harvest is complete, they could be using shepard to clean up their mess.

Please not this "Asari can affect how people see them" bs again. That's one very particular example of reading too much into things. (I know, it's ironic, me and all the suggestive dialogue stuff)

Anyway.

One very important reason people don't "buy" IT, is that they see it as a way to invalidate two of the three endings. They feel it can't be true, because it violates the concept of an RPG, where (they feel) every choice should be valid.

The thing with IT-ers is that we see a certain red thread throughout the story. We've had certain experiences that (both thematically and practically) prepared us for what was to come. We see the ending as a test that asks what we have truly learned through experience.

These two approaches are very hard to reconcile for many players. No choice should be without consequences. And that's where the pain lies with the direction they seem to be taking with ME:A. It seems like they're avoiding to show us what those consequences really are. And as long as that issue isn't cleared up, the whole ME3 ending will remain controversial and polarising.

dorktainian wrote:There's a massive continuity leap from the end of mass effect 3 to mass effect andromeda.  Surely they would have to show some information as to how we ended up at that point in some kind of prologue?

FWIW I still think the N7 is shepard.  It's just sodamn similar to the ME3 trailer for it not to be.  I still say the N7 in the suit from the trailer a year ago was Shepard (difficult to see through that visor but it deffo was him).  Maybe that was from a prologue of sorts.  I dunno.

Let's assume Shepard is still alive, but indoctrinated.

Shepard is on a mission...  Maybe he's going to kill anyone affected by reapers or reaper artifacts as well?  Like a purge on anything reaper like technologically.  Don't forget the reapers eradicate all technology after the harvest is complete, they could be using shepard to clean up their mess.

I think it's probably Shepard. Probably. But I could see it as someone else.

About the Reapers leaving stuff..... They really just choose to leave things for advanced peoples to find. Mass Effect relays, Citadel, Crucible, Reaper artifacts/indoctrinations devices. Omega (Yes, I think Omega is a Reaper structure, call me crazy. But I do) and of course.... You know, the "Mass Effect" technology itself. Also.... The Leviathan. This bothers me, why haven't the reapers mopped the rest of them up. I mean if the Leviathan are as powerful and HUGE as we are led to believe and are capable of indoctrination and our the ancestors of Harby himself..... Why not search and search for them all the time until you know they've been merked and completely eradicated?

Does not make sense. But I mean, the Reapers don't make a lot sense... They just leave the very plans of a structure that can bring about their doom lying around on Mars..... Herpderp. They fail to kill the one guy that fucked up one of them and ruined their plans with the initial invasion. They still fail, to kill the one guy, even with Harby straight up NUKING SHEP IN THE FACE WITH A GIANT LASER. They still can't kill this fucker! I mean.... Dafuq, they are pretty herp derp by the time ME3 rolls around. I mean we saw ONE of these fuckers literally PUT THE ENTIRE CITADEL FLEET- (a fleet that was armed with multiple dreadnoughts and assault class frigates and fighters) on the brink. Sovereign was putting his size 10000 boots so far up their ass the Citadel Fleet was spiting Reaper size shoelaces. Sovereign was kicking the shit out of them. And if it wasn't for Shepard getting oh so lucky and really just being at the right place at the right time, it would have been game set match right there.

That's ONE reaper.... Fuck.

Then by the time ME2 rolls around we see Harby- (FROM MOTHER FUCKING DARKSPACE) literally controlling a whole, vast army of Collectors. FROM MOTHER FUCKIN' DARKSPACE! I mean holly fuck, Just One of these bad ass reapers are uber powerful.

And then..... By the time ME3 rolls around they're like.... You know, being challenged by a bunch of rag tag resistance fighters on Earth. Get challenged by the Turian Fleet and are getting fought nearly to a defeat by the Krogan.......

Yeah. Um... Something doesn't quite seem right. I mean, lets just assume that there were say, eh, 500 or so Sovereign class Reapers in the Invasion of the Milky way (That's probably way low, but lets go with 500). IT WOULD BE A TOTAL ANNIHILATION. And it wouldn't take months and months. It would take maybe 2 or 3 weeks, probably less lol. I mean, one of this things kicked the shit out of one of the most capable fleets in the galaxy and was only stopped because of an oversight, albeit pretty big, by it and it's proxy.

And yet, we are led to believe that we can hold until we build some super duper weapon. Months and months, what was it... Six months or so? Isn't that how long it is between when the Reapers invade Earth and the battle of London and stuff... Six months right?

No way. Nope.

One Reaper pushed the citadel fleet to the brink. ONE.

Against an armada of them.... No way. It would be over.


Unless...... They want it that way

DoomsdayDevice wrote:Please not this "Asari can affect how people see them" bs again. That's one very particular example of reading too much into things. (I know, it's ironic, me and all the suggestive dialogue stuff)

Anyway.

One very important reason people don't "buy" IT, is that they see it as a way to invalidate two of the three endings. They feel it can't be true, because it violates the concept of an RPG, where (they feel) every choice should be valid.

The thing with IT-ers is that we see a certain red thread throughout the story. We've had certain experiences that (both thematically and practically) prepared us for what was to come. We see the ending as a test that asks what we have truly learned through experience.

These two approaches are very hard to reconcile for many players. No choice should be without consequences. And that's where the pain lies with the direction they seem to be taking with ME:A. It seems like they're avoiding to show us what those consequences really are. And as long as that issue isn't cleared up, the whole ME3 ending will remain controversial and polarising.

maybe they want it that way?

The only odd thing... although it's a big odd thing... is that they happen to have all the traits, and in the right balance/placement too, to be attractive to literally every single race. Even the fucking Hanar. Maybe the Protheans purposely made them the sexy babes of the universe through genetic engineering. Perhaps they had planned to get this cycle's species to band together under the Prothean band through the Asari.

Terramine wrote:The only odd thing... although it's a big odd thing... is that they happen to have all the traits, and in the right balance/placement too, to be attractive to literally every single race. Even the fucking Hanar. Maybe the Protheans purposely made them the sexy babes of the universe through genetic engineering. Perhaps they had planned to get this cycle's species to band together under the Prothean band through the Asari.

"Perhaps they had planned to get this cycle's species to band together under the Prothean band through the Asari."

Well, Javik basically states this to Liara after Thessia.

But... Then typical trollolol Javik, when Shepard's like, "Hey bro, was that true. What you said to Liara about the Asari"?. Javik's like, "Meh, what does it matter. Hehehe".


Javik is such a great troll.

Interesting stuff, as always, Turian. Perhaps more suitable for the Scary Door than this place but nothing I take offense at.

Still, hate to sound arrogant, but best SD theory I've heard is... Shepard is a living hero sent into a virtual reality realm of the dead. Shepard is experiencing a nekyia. Why exactly? By whom? Beats me.

"This is not your domain." "You bring only death."

Salvation through destruction. Harbinger of our perfection. Ascension. Preservation of life at all costs. Accepting their future versus self-determination. Embracing eternity.

These are the hidden themes of ME.

DoomsdayDevice wrote:Please not this "Asari can affect how people see them" bs again. That's one very particular example of reading too much into things. (I know, it's ironic, me and all the suggestive dialogue stuff)

Anyway.

Well this is just your opinion and take no offense but it has no more value than the one of those who think the bachelor party dialog is meaningful. (and the effect of the drink in the bar on Illium and the part in a novel where paul Grayson depicts the attraction he feels toward aria's daughter and so on..)

Nothing is settled here. Absolutely nothing.

TurianRebel212 wrote:

dorktainian wrote:There's a massive continuity leap from the end of mass effect 3 to mass effect andromeda.  Surely they would have to show some information as to how we ended up at that point in some kind of prologue?

FWIW I still think the N7 is shepard.  It's just sodamn similar to the ME3 trailer for it not to be.  I still say the N7 in the suit from the trailer a year ago was Shepard (difficult to see through that visor but it deffo was him).  Maybe that was from a prologue of sorts.  I dunno.

Let's assume Shepard is still alive, but indoctrinated.

Shepard is on a mission...  Maybe he's going to kill anyone affected by reapers or reaper artifacts as well?  Like a purge on anything reaper like technologically.  Don't forget the reapers eradicate all technology after the harvest is complete, they could be using shepard to clean up their mess.

I think it's probably Shepard. Probably. But I could see it as someone else.

About the Reapers leaving stuff..... They really just choose to leave things for advanced peoples to find. Mass Effect relays, Citadel, Crucible, Reaper artifacts/indoctrinations devices. Omega (Yes, I think Omega is a Reaper structure, call me crazy. But I do) and of course.... You know, the "Mass Effect" technology itself. Also.... The Leviathan. This bothers me, why haven't the reapers mopped the rest of them up. I mean if the Leviathan are as powerful and HUGE as we are led to believe and are capable of indoctrination and our the ancestors of Harby himself..... Why not search and search for them all the time until you know they've been merked and completely eradicated?

Does not make sense. But I mean, the Reapers don't make a lot sense... They just leave the very plans of a structure that can bring about their doom lying around on Mars..... Herpderp. They fail to kill the one guy that fucked up one of them and ruined their plans with the initial invasion. They still fail, to kill the one guy, even with Harby straight up NUKING SHEP IN THE FACE WITH A GIANT LASER. They still can't kill this fucker! I mean.... Dafuq, they are pretty herp derp by the time ME3 rolls around. I mean we saw ONE of these fuckers literally PUT THE ENTIRE CITADEL FLEET- (a fleet that was armed with multiple dreadnoughts and assault class frigates and fighters) on the brink. Sovereign was putting his size 10000 boots so far up their ass the Citadel Fleet was spiting Reaper size shoelaces. Sovereign was kicking the shit out of them. And if it wasn't for Shepard getting oh so lucky and really just being at the right place at the right time, it would have been game set match right there.

That's ONE reaper.... Fuck.

Then by the time ME2 rolls around we see Harby- (FROM MOTHER FUCKING DARKSPACE) literally controlling a whole, vast army of Collectors. FROM MOTHER FUCKIN' DARKSPACE! I mean holly fuck, Just One of these bad ass reapers are uber powerful.

And then..... By the time ME3 rolls around they're like.... You know, being challenged by a bunch of rag tag resistance fighters on Earth. Get challenged by the Turian Fleet and are getting fought nearly to a defeat by the Krogan.......

Yeah. Um... Something doesn't quite seem right. I mean, lets just assume that there were say, eh, 500 or so Sovereign class Reapers in the Invasion of the Milky way (That's probably way low, but lets go with 500). IT WOULD BE A TOTAL ANNIHILATION. And it wouldn't take months and months. It would take maybe 2 or 3 weeks, probably less lol. I mean, one of this things kicked the shit out of one of the most capable fleets in the galaxy and was only stopped because of an oversight, albeit pretty big, by it and it's proxy.

And yet, we are led to believe that we can hold until we build some super duper weapon. Months and months, what was it... Six months or so? Isn't that how long it is between when the Reapers invade Earth and the battle of London and stuff... Six months right?

No way. Nope.

One Reaper pushed the citadel fleet to the brink. ONE.

Against an armada of them.... No way. It would be over.


Unless...... They want it that way

I want to comment about leviathans being able to survive through cycles.

How coud they acheive that, because it's the purpose of enthrallement. Before this cycle, it is not told reapers were aware leviathans had survived. Leviathans always acted through other lesser organics by using mental domination.

Had the reapers found the TGES installation, they would have found no link to the leviathans because the orbs would have been destroyed the moment reaper forces would have entered the installation and as soon as levi would have felt threatened.

The orb on Namakli was only found on a dead planet in the middle of ruins of a primitive civiliation which the reapers never took an interest in.

If the Eletania event really depicts first a leviathan studying primitives (my theory) and then a reaper destroying the experiment and both were registered on a prothean orb, it is likely the reaper involved never knew a leviathan came before him, he just saw an experiment made by the evolved species at the time whereas the experiment was mae by prothean thralls of the mighty leviathans.

Furthermore, the reapers never found the thorian, lost underneath a prothean world which means they can miss things.

Reapers are almighty, numberless but it is said in mE1 they used indoctrinated species to remove all remnants of former civiliations and of the harvest. They use indoctrinated subject to obtain informations to find every survivors. What if those species just do not know of leviathan? Then they cannot help reapers to find the last leviathans.

Moreover, we have no ideas of Leviathan capabilities. They can use space travel, they can submit a 2 km long reaper to their will, what else? I don't think farfetched the idea of them surviving for so long especially if the reapers have not been aware of their existence. Leviathans could just move if a reaper came too close or maybe wipe his mind, jedi style. 'Those are not the leviathans you're looking for'
We also have to take into account reapers would have to search every planet in the galaxy wich lead to the next point.

imho reapers need the cycle to advance, they cannot stay forever to catch leviathans. Then they leave after every organic civilization has been wiped out, confident in the fact cycles cannot be broken. And it is true leviathans haven't been able to break those cycles for millions of years.

I agree with the rest of what you said. But again, it is not 100% confirmed every artifact left, especially the shanxy and palaven artifacts were left by the reapers.

And this for 2 reasons, when TIM was touched by the artifact, he had a vision strangely similar to the one shown to Shepard by the prothean beacon, an eclipse, a sun. I know you think Ilos and the beacon are also designed by the reapers but we have no evidence of that.

2nd, the idea of reapers indoctrinating TIM to make him search a way to control reapers in order to weaken organics seems really lousy whereas the idea of leviathan selecting TIM to help humanity to prepare for the coming harvest and also to try to control the reapers seems much better. Control is a leaviathan choice.

3rd, despite everything, it is never clearly confirmed reapers touched TIM's mind at the time.
Reapers have no interest is leaving those artifacts, they don't want anyone to know they are coming. They already have sovereign to watch the galaxy for them. They already have troops. They need organics to evolve in order to harvest them. The shanxi device stops that evolution.
Making the shanxi artifact a reaper thing creates more plotholes than the leviathan option.

And now we can agree to disagree.

TurianRebel212 wrote:

Terramine wrote:The only odd thing... although it's a big odd thing... is that they happen to have all the traits, and in the right balance/placement too, to be attractive to literally every single race. Even the fucking Hanar. Maybe the Protheans purposely made them the sexy babes of the universe through genetic engineering. Perhaps they had planned to get this cycle's species to band together under the Prothean band through the Asari.

"Perhaps they had planned to get this cycle's species to band together under the Prothean band through the Asari."

Well, Javik basically states this to Liara after Thessia.

But... Then typical trollolol Javik, when Shepard's like, "Hey bro, was that true. What you said to Liara about the Asari"?. Javik's like, "Meh, what does it matter. Hehehe".


Javik is such a great troll.

IMO Javik's trolling is basically revealing of Bioware's mentality on many of these subjects.

"What does it matter?" - response to EVERYTHING.

Just pick a color, win the 'war', and move on.

Well we ITers can't move on lol, damn you, damn you Bioware.

smash016 wrote:Interesting stuff, as always, Turian. Perhaps more suitable for the Scary Door than this place but nothing I take offense at.

Still, hate to sound arrogant, but best SD theory I've heard is... Shepard is a living hero sent into a virtual reality realm of the dead. Shepard is experiencing a nekyia. Why exactly? By whom? Beats me.

"This is not your domain." "You bring only death."

Salvation through destruction. Harbinger of our perfection. Ascension. Preservation of life at all costs. Accepting their future versus self-determination. Embracing eternity.

These are the hidden themes of ME.

Yes. Purgatory etc.

We're an N7 'Infiltrator' and not knowing it. Still the hero, but different context.

Oooooo Scary Door ooooo 

DoomsdayDevice wrote:

One very important reason people don't "buy" IT, is that they see it as a way to invalidate two of the three endings. They feel it can't be true, because it violates the concept of an RPG, where (they feel) every choice should be valid.

The thing with IT-ers is that we see a certain red thread throughout the story. We've had certain experiences that (both thematically and practically) prepared us for what was to come. We see the ending as a test that asks what we have truly learned through experience.

These two approaches are very hard to reconcile for many players. No choice should be without consequences. And that's where the pain lies with the direction they seem to be taking with ME:A. It seems like they're avoiding to show us what those consequences really are. And as long as that issue isn't cleared up, the whole ME3 ending will remain controversial and polarising.

And of course the irony is that IT, or something like it, is the only way that any of those ridiculous choices can ever be respected - by determining the fate of Shepard. Their choices would matter, it's just that the consequences would not be quite what they expected. Such is life folks! Get used to it!
Yet people will praise The Witcher series to the rafters precisely because (I'm told) it's choices aren't immediately obvious, and what seems like the most well-meaning' "paragon" choice can have disastrous consequences hours later.

Any literal interpretation results in the entire Milky Way being forever off-limits for any future story. They can't possibly accommodate all three possibilities in one game. But if they canonise one of the choices then the fans of the other two will throw their toys out of the pram because their favourite galactic power-fantasy hasn't come to pass in exactly the way they imagined. So they would have to institute a "Don't mention the Milky Way" policy for ME andromeda so people can maintain their precious head-canons, despite that the fact that it would make all the trials and tribulations of the andromeda colonists seem a complete waste of time since they could solve all of their wretched problems by just turning around and going home!

Sorry, I'm preaching to the choir a bit here. But God, this situation is annoying...

Edit. Speaking of annoying, Bioware just released a video of themselves reacting to other people's reactions to their trailer...

Wow. That's a lot of walls of text. tl;dr.

TurianRebel212 wrote:What if... The N7 breathe scene isn't Shepard but the N7 character in the Trailer?

Noticed this while skimming though. The FMV's of the breath scene are named End03_Shepard_Alive_Fem.bik & End03_Shepard_Alive_Male.bik. Yeah, it's Shepard.

TurianRebel212 wrote:The rest..... Well, it's just dust on cosmic winds.

Heh, I threw away an hour or so, some months back, trying to adapt the lyrics to "Dust in the Wind" for Javik... Just basically beginning with accepting his people having fallen, and ending with the reapers, too, being only so much dust, once he's done with them.

Opening was easy enough, requiring almost no massaging at all, to fit his stint in suspension, but after that I didn't get very far - no wordsmith, me. :P


Here's a bit of random speculation around the pseudo-science of Mass Effect, entertaining that notion of the entire Citadel making it over to the galaxy next over: Could a body, travelling through the massless corridor between two active relays, take the relay, on the departing end, with it? I.e. could the Citadel+Crucible assembly envelop itself in its created field, and still keep it open all the way to the other end (whilst possibly leaving a destructive implosion in its wake), or would this be akin to Baron Münchausen lifting himself by the hair ?

just watching that reaction trailer makes me want to slap every one of em.

dorktainian wrote:just watching that reaction trailer makes me want to slap every one of em.

I don't even have to see it to know my reaction:

My apologies. I feel I should have posted some sort of warning not to click on that video if you suffer from high blood pressure. You could practically see the waves of smug self-satisfaction radiating from them like steam off a compost heap.

I just really couldn't bring myself to press play on that video. So I didn't.

YOu know Batman Arkham Knight had so much indoctrination in the game. It is like they took all the things Bioware "should" have done and actually make a game to remember that may not be as a new way of telling a story but dam man it felt soooo fucking good to the point i wanted a certain character to just lose it all and let voice in that persons head win!!!

My reaction was, "Holy fuck, over 3 years and not one bit of gameplay only some derpy ass EA shill cinematic. How lame. Meh"

That's basically how I feel about the Adromdeda E3 trailer. Underwhelming is an understatement.

Over 3 years...... No gameplay=Lazy ass EAWare being lazy. As always. Hey, at least they're consistent.

Well, I wasn't really expecting much for the E3 trailer, and big surprise, we didn't get much. You have to wonder what the fuck they're thinking and where they're going with all this.

I thought of something else. Our Shepards refused to make deals with the devil. There was no compromise with the Old Machines. They stayed true and didn't ally with absolute evil. This means that if the Reapers indoctrinate Shepard, it'll have to be the hard way. They tried the seduction method and Shepard literally opened fire on them. In order for indoctrination to not render the subject a gibbering mess, it has to be the slow and seductive type that our Shepards resisted. If they wind up indoctrinated, they'll be totally insane and completely worthless before long. Certainly before the amount of time it would take to get to Andromeda.

Not to say that we couldn't see indoctrinated Shepard there. Just that it wouldn't make sense. Like everything else we know about ME:A.

Rifneno wrote:I thought of something else.  Our Shepards refused to make deals with the devil.  There was no compromise with the Old Machines.  They stayed true and didn't ally with absolute evil.  This means that if the Reapers indoctrinate Shepard, it'll have to be the hard way.  They tried the seduction method and Shepard literally opened fire on them.  In order for indoctrination to not render the subject a gibbering mess, it has to be the slow and seductive type that our Shepards resisted.  If they wind up indoctrinated, they'll be totally insane and completely worthless before long.  Certainly before the amount of time it would take to get to Andromeda.

Not to say that we couldn't see indoctrinated Shepard there.  Just that it wouldn't make sense.  Like everything else we know about ME:A.

Hmm... Those are disturbing implications. However, I think there are ways for it to make a certain degree of sense. Just because the Reapers failed in the specific instance we saw at the end of ME3 doesn't mean they would immediately give up on the slow, patient method. We don't know when Andromeda is set so they might have continued slowly indoctrinating a captive Shepard over weeks or months until he finally made the choice they wanted (although this wouldn't make sense if he gets zapped to Andromeda instantly).
Or it might be the case that they could find a way to twist even a destroy Shepard to their goals - perhaps by amplifying a latent wariness of "lesser" forms of synthetic life to fanatical levels.
Or they could use rapid indoctrination and then immediately put him in cryogenic suspension for the trip so that he's still reasonably useful. I'm not saying I would like any of these possibilities, particularly that last, horrible one, but they could conceivably work after a fashion.

Looking back at the trailer again, I'm struck by the similarity between the leap Shepard takes at the end of ME3's "Take Earth Back" trailer and the one taken by the new N7:





I realize that there's only so many action poses you can put a character into but, again, this really isn't helping me forget about Shepard. If this really is some random new dude then I will be extremely annoyed and confused by Bioware's approach to marketing.

Edit - Looking at the battle scenes around the 1.25 mark of the trailer - are some of those red "laser" blasts coming from behind the N7? They're moving too fast for me to tell. If so, the Alliance doesn't use that kind of weapon if they're coming from the N7's side.