(XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Ryder is a SJW in a brand spanking new galaxy.

EA/Bioware can hear the squeals and swooning from the groupies, they see $$$$.

That's all that matters to them now.

It's just going to be an DA:I clone with starsystems.

Many seem to also think it could be Witcher 3 in space.

windsurfing wrote:Many seem to also think it could be Witcher 3 in space.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Bioware fucking WISHES.

Apparently this premise was leaked out a while ago.

"Andromeda starts and finishes with the Ark. "Human archaeologists begin following the trail of clues that will eventually lead the to the Ark." This event takes place in 2148, the same year that humans uncover the Prothean data cache on Mars. From there we begin to expand into the depths of space, colonising planets, activating mass relays, engaging in a war with Turians and finally earning the right to an embassy on the Citadel Council in 2157.

Once humanity uncovers the Ark, its significance appears to be ignored. That is, until the findings of Shepard and his team highlight its galactic importance. In 2183, Admiral Hackett permits Salarian, Turian and Asari scientists to conduct experiments with the Ark - all of which was kept top secret. This would have been taking place before the events of the first Mass Effect game.

After some time, Liara T'Soni uncovers the true nature of the Ark. Her data on the Protheans was collected, as the Ark was revealed to be a pathway to the Andromeda galaxy. With the threat of the Reapers looming, Ark scientists appeal to the Council and Alliance Leadership to consider the Prothean device a means of escaping the imminent onslaught.

With the use of Liara's encryption keys, access to the Ark is granted and ARKCON activates the Prothean device. The council sends through members of each respective race to explore this new frontier. The Pathway initiative is launched as these pathfinders investigate whether new colonies can survive outside of the Milky Way. It seems their venture was successful.

With Shepard having faced defeat on Thessia, and the threat of the Reapers looming, ARKCON prepares a flotilla of ships to head into the Andromeda galaxy. On board these sips will be countless personnel who will aid in the construction of new homes. Agricultural vessels are joined by resource planning platforms, military ships and all of the other prerequisites required to create new homes.

Then, as Shepard launches the final battle on the Reapers, ARKCON orders for the newly prepared fleet to evacuate the Milky Way and make for the Andromeda galaxy. The ARK is destroyed in the process, as all communication for both sides is lost. Pathfinders will be totally clueless as to what happened in the Milky Way. "

I swear on all that is holy, if they try to tie in the Ark of the Covenant seen in the Citadel DLC as being canonically important in any way... There is no facepalm emoticon powerful enough to capture my disgust with that idea.

Dont be suprised if they tie the ark thing on citadel dlc with mass effect andromashit zerebusprime. Bioware loves to connect dlc to there next games with arrival in masseffect 2 and in dragon age 2 with corephuswhateverthefuck. Bioware wishes they could make a game that is good as witcher 3 so witcher in space my ass. Im with jusseb this game is gna be a beautiful looking dragon age inqusition fetch quest hybrid "exploring" this galaxy. The way there going with this story makes me wanna vomit and if that leak is true or not the story has to be told in that kind of way its just not good people. Mac walters and ea offically killed mass effect. O and mike gamble and his sexy wife can go fuck themselves i just dont like him

dorktainian wrote:Apparently this premise was leaked out a while ago.

"Andromeda starts and finishes with the Ark. "Human archaeologists begin following the trail of clues that will eventually lead the to the Ark." This event takes place in 2148, the same year that humans uncover the Prothean data cache on Mars. From there we begin to expand into the depths of space, colonising planets, activating mass relays, engaging in a war with Turians and finally earning the right to an embassy on the Citadel Council in 2157.

Once humanity uncovers the Ark, its significance appears to be ignored. That is, until the findings of Shepard and his team highlight its galactic importance. In 2183, Admiral Hackett permits Salarian, Turian and Asari scientists to conduct experiments with the Ark - all of which was kept top secret. This would have been taking place before the events of the first Mass Effect game.

After some time, Liara T'Soni uncovers the true nature of the Ark. Her data on the Protheans was collected, as the Ark was revealed to be a pathway to the Andromeda galaxy. With the threat of the Reapers looming, Ark scientists appeal to the Council and Alliance Leadership to consider the Prothean device a means of escaping the imminent onslaught.

With the use of Liara's encryption keys, access to the Ark is granted and ARKCON activates the Prothean device. The council sends through members of each respective race to explore this new frontier. The Pathway initiative is launched as these pathfinders investigate whether new colonies can survive outside of the Milky Way. It seems their venture was successful.

With Shepard having faced defeat on Thessia, and the threat of the Reapers looming, ARKCON prepares a flotilla of ships to head into the Andromeda galaxy. On board these sips will be countless personnel who will aid in the construction of new homes. Agricultural vessels are joined by resource planning platforms, military ships and all of the other prerequisites required to create new homes.

Then, as Shepard launches the final battle on the Reapers, ARKCON orders for the newly prepared fleet to evacuate the Milky Way and make for the Andromeda galaxy. The ARK is destroyed in the process, as all communication for both sides is lost. Pathfinders will be totally clueless as to what happened in the Milky Way. "

I like this.  Instead of avoiding its own retardation by pretending Liara wouldn't know, it confronts and accepts its retardation by having her take an active role in the Ark even though there's literally no way Liara wouldn't have told Shepard.  I can definitely see them going with this.

yeah like Liara is running blindly at the beam of eternal stench in london. wouldn't she have been like ''screw this i'm outta here''?

Rifneno wrote:

windsurfing wrote:Many seem to also think it could be Witcher 3 in space.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Bioware fucking WISHES.

I just knew that would provide comic relief, I thought just the same when I read that from several buffoons over at NeoGAF. BTW why does that forum get so much publicity? It always comes up on top in most searches. What's so special about NeoGAF? I understand even Bioware staff lurk that place.

dorktainian wrote:yeah like Liara is running blindly at the beam of eternal stench in london.  wouldn't she have been like ''screw this i'm outta here''?

Bioderp is going to explain that one away as Liara knew full well Shepard wasn't a quitter or a coward so she couldn't bring that up as an option or something corny like that.

Rifneno wrote:

dorktainian wrote:*snip*

I like this.  Instead of avoiding its own retardation by pretending Liara wouldn't know, it confronts and accepts its retardation by having her take an active role in the Ark even though there's literally no way Liara wouldn't have told Shepard.  I can definitely see them going with this.

I generally agree that it could be worse, but I nonetheless have two major problems with the thing.

1: In order to transport the ships we have been shown, this ARK must have been freaking huge and yet it was ignored?

2: The power source on the ARK must be absolutely humongous. The Citadel only has to reach into Dark Space and it already dwarfs relays. This thing goes to Andromeda, I mean holy shit. And they destroyed it when leaving? How many star systems were wiped out by that?

Also at this point whenever I see "Prothean device" attached to anything I mentally replace "Prothean" with "Reaper." Seriously, no chance the Protheans set this thing up.

Assuming off course that this is all true.

Bioware's new goto when things can't be explained.

"Previous cycle's civilization did it" there we go fixed. I bet the Leviathan's did it! That's where they were after Levi DLC, and why we never saw them in the final battle.

What's more amusing is the Reapers missed it..again...like the crucible...

windsurfing wrote:Bioderp is going to explain that one away as Liara knew full well Shepard wasn't a quitter or a coward so she couldn't bring that up as an option or something corny like that.

There's still no way she wouldn't have brought it up during that conversation where she's lamenting the fact that she may live to see the end of this cycle's species. If she knew some were trying to exodus to another galaxy, she would've at least mentioned it as an "I don't believe they'll make it, but they're even trying this" tidbit. There's no way she would've kept it a secret from Shepard, and there's no way she wouldn't have think it worth mentioning at least in passing through all of ME3. There's just no reasonable explanation for it.

I guess we can add that to the pile right next to shit like "if this trip is feasible, why aren't the Reapers just giving chase or even harvesting Andromeda too?"

Raistlin Majere wrote:I generally agree that it could be worse, but I nonetheless have two major problems with the thing.

"Like" was meant with a great deal of sarcasm. I didn't mean that it made a lick of sense. Christ no. It's completely ridiculous.

Rifneno wrote:

windsurfing wrote:Bioderp is going to explain that one away as Liara knew full well Shepard wasn't a quitter or a coward so she couldn't bring that up as an option or something corny like that.

There's still no way she wouldn't have brought it up during that conversation where she's lamenting the fact that she may live to see the end of this cycle's species.  If she knew some were trying to exodus to another galaxy, she would've at least mentioned it as an "I don't believe they'll make it, but they're even trying this" tidbit.  There's no way she would've kept it a secret from Shepard, and there's no way she wouldn't have think it worth mentioning at least in passing through all of ME3.  There's just no reasonable explanation for it.

I know, there is no way for this to be presented and expect any rational person to digest this horseshit.

Yet another bullcrap they might try to pull. Of-screen (to the player) Shepard and Liara already knew about this but it wasn't their focus so it not brought up in the trilogy for the player to know. Bioderp: Why? because storyz.

Bioderp: Whats that we hear?! There where no codex entries about this? You don't have to know everything happening in the world *lolz*  

Which is just as moronic.

Rifneno wrote:
I guess we can add that to the pile right next to shit like "if this trip is feasible, why aren't the Reapers just giving chase or even harvesting Andromeda too?"

Ditto

I think we can all agree on the fact that there's no logical way that the ARK theory can connect within the previous trilogy.

Even if it was Protean technology, wouldn't The Collectors a.ka. the Reapers also have the same technology? Or know about the plan? And what about Cerberus?

We all know what happened when the Alpha Relay was destroyed. Imagine what happens if the 'Andromeda' relay is destroyed.

So many plotholes I cant even fathom. Are they really that desperate at Bioware?

Hand waves of many inconsistencies are a given, if you as much as question them, SJW on Bioware' payroll and otherwise will be out in full force to defend them while putting you down as a bigot.

Jusseb wrote:I think we can all agree on the fact that there's no logical way that the ARK theory can connect within the previous trilogy.

Even if it was Protean technology, wouldn't The Collectors a.ka. the Reapers also have the same technology? Or know about the plan? And what about Cerberus?

We all know what happened when the Alpha Relay was destroyed. Imagine what happens if the 'Andromeda' relay is destroyed.

So many plotholes I cant even fathom. Are they really that desperate at Bioware?

oh there is, but it requires a great deal of scary door logic at the ending of mass effect 1 for it to make any kind of sense.

plus, as they've said before, you can take ME1 as a standalone game.

Jusseb wrote:I think we can all agree on the fact that there's no logical way that the ARK theory can connect within the previous trilogy.

If anyone disagrees, I vote that they be used as a whale suppository.

We all know what happened when the Alpha Relay was destroyed. Imagine what happens if the 'Andromeda' relay is destroyed.

I thought so at first, but after some thought, it wouldn't cause much more damage. I mean, yes, the explosion will be like a fucking quasar. But the distance between stars is so omgwtf stupidhuge that the blast wouldn't hit other systems. Some numbers for example. We're 3 light minutes from our star, Sol. The next nearest star is 4.37 light years away. In fact, Andromeda and the Milky Way are expected to collide in about a billion years. Despite the fact that both have hundreds of millions of stars, it's statistically extremely unlikely that any two stars will collide.

I'm not sure if mass effect explosions release any type of radiation, but if so that would have a far wider effect. Star systems in a pretty large area (though it's hard to even ballpark how big, I'd guess a few thousand light year radius) would be hit by a powerful burst that would strip away the ozone layers of said planets. They would eventually regenerate but in the meantime any life on those planets would not be having a pleasant time of it. Ever heard the Ordovician–Silurian extinction event? Earth's second largest mass extinction after the Great Dying. One of the leading hypotheses for its cause, which I personally agree with, is that it was caused by Earth being hit by a gamma ray burst after a "nearby" star went hypernova. If indeed a mass relay explosion causes similar radiological and electromagnetic problems as stellar explosions, then this would be the result.

/sciencechat

So many plotholes I cant even fathom. Are they really that desperate at Bioware?

They treated their fans like intelligent people with ME3. The great majority proved that they are fucking idiots. So now BW is treating ME's fanbase like fucking idiots because, aside from us, they are.

windsurfing wrote:Hand waves of many inconsistencies are a given,  if you as much as question them, SJW on Bioware' payroll  and otherwise will be out in full force to defend them while putting you down as a bigot.

I look forward to the day we can legally hunt SJWs.

dorktainian wrote:scary door logic

There's an oxymoron for you...

I love how you guys keep poking holes in this, and then some new tidbit of information shows an easy rationale that you all missed, that shows how it's perfectly logical. But then you keep goin on about how irrational and lore breaking something like this is because you guys can't conceive of an explanation.

-There is no mention of Liara knowing about the Ark. Just that her research is used. Which makes sense, Liara isn't JUST Shepard's lap dog. She's a top researcher. Meaning the shit she finds? Reaches people she doesn't even know about.

-The Ark wasn't /ignored/, just largely swept under the rug for the time being. Just like a /dead reaper/ and hints to the Reapers' creator race were swept under the rug. In regards to politics, and technological advancement and shit like that, it has always been that the people at large can only handle so much at a time. It's just like the US government in real life, almost definitely hoarding technology that is ahead of what the people have access to. Only releasing said technology to the public when it is /consistent/ and /linear/ to do so.

It makes sense with the timing of finding it, etc. That they would have slid it under the rug for the time being. Everybody just found out about the citadel, etc. What room does a giant Trans-Galactic transportation device, have in the current affairs of the galactic community? Should they have just started it up right away and traveled to another galaxy for shits and gigs? Or waited until it would actually be relevant? There would be no need for the Ark UNTIL there was a /need/ to leave the Galaxy. Which wasn't even set to happen by default until the milky way had /no more room/. Which was going to be a while, as there was a lot of the milky way still unclaimed by time the Reapers showed up.

Jusseb wrote:*snip*
Even if it was Protean technology, wouldn't The Collectors a.ka. the Reapers also have the same technology? Or know about the plan? And what about Cerberus?

Considering it was allegedly from the previous cycle, it's relatively new. Even if the Reapers knew about it, there was no reason for them to automatically be prepared to basically integrate another galaxy into their cycle if it wasn't their doing in the first place. It's plausible they were putting it on hold for the time being and planning to use it for themselves in the future? Or maybe that's why they let us use it? So we can basically prepare this new galaxy for their arrival. It's possible that it was actually just flat out created by the Reapers.

One of the biggest assumptions made by you guys, is what exactly is going on thematically speaking. That Shepard was "supposed" to break out of indoctrination. That we were supposed to overthrow the Reapers, etc. When it's easily possible that the actual story we got was that basically, the Reapers won as usual. But this cycle was significant in particular because it was the cycle where they branched out into another galaxy. Maybe Mass Effect is a story about the Reaper's next big step in advancement.

It's also just flat out possible that they didn't know about it. Because it wasn't originally created to escape the Reapers. But rather was something the Protheans cooked up before the Reapers ever showed up because they had /spread over the entire galaxy canonically speaking/. The pinnacle they were at, this kind of technology makes perfect sense actually. They had conquered the entire galaxy. They are EXACTLY the kind of civilization that would be planning to... oh I don't know... travel to another galaxy altogether?

And perhaps they even purposely kept it secret from the Reapers. Maybe it was a part of their plan to join the next cycle and guide them. Perhaps instead of leading a new battle against the Reapers, like Javik thinks was the plan, in actuality they were planning on basically saying "Hey guys, there's these giant killer machines coming, let's hop on board this ark and hop to the next galaxy over where we all will be safe".

Jusseb wrote:We all know what happened when the Alpha Relay was destroyed. Imagine what happens if the 'Andromeda' relay is destroyed.

That's not a plot hole. That's not an argument. That's literally just a statement, that makes a self-evident point. To which end I must ask... what IS your point here? So what?

Terramine wrote:

Jusseb wrote:*snip*
Even if it was Protean technology, wouldn't The Collectors a.ka. the Reapers also have the same technology? Or know about the plan? And what about Cerberus?

Considering it was allegedly from the previous cycle, it's relatively new. Even if the Reapers knew about it, there was no reason for them to automatically be prepared to basically integrate another galaxy into their cycle if it wasn't their doing in the first place. It's plausible they were putting it on hold for the time being and planning to use it for themselves in the future? Or maybe that's why they let us use it? So we can basically prepare this new galaxy for their arrival. It's possible that it was actually just flat out created by the Reapers.

One of the biggest assumptions made by you guys, is what exactly is going on thematically speaking. That Shepard was "supposed" to break out of indoctrination. That we were supposed to overthrow the Reapers, etc. When it's easily possible that the actual story we got was that basically, the Reapers won as usual. But this cycle was significant in particular because it was the cycle where they branched out into another galaxy. Maybe Mass Effect is a story about the Reaper's next big step in advancement.

It's also just flat out possible that they didn't know about it. Because it wasn't originally created to escape the Reapers. But rather was something the Protheans cooked up before the Reapers ever showed up because they had /spread over the entire galaxy canonically speaking/. The pinnacle they were at, this kind of technology makes perfect sense actually. They had conquered the entire galaxy. They are EXACTLY the kind of civilization that would be planning to... oh I don't know... travel to another galaxy altogether?

And perhaps they even purposely kept it secret from the Reapers. Maybe it was a part of their plan to join the next cycle and guide them. Perhaps instead of leading a new battle against the Reapers, like Javik thinks was the plan, in actuality they were planning on basically saying "Hey guys, there's these giant killer machines coming, let's hop on board this ark and hop to the next galaxy over where we all will be safe".

Jusseb wrote:We all know what happened when the Alpha Relay was destroyed. Imagine what happens if the 'Andromeda' relay is destroyed.

That's not a plot hole. That's not an argument. That's literally just a statement, that makes a self-evident point. To which end I must ask... what IS your point here? So what?

Actually the Protheans were not fully expanded. They in truth were still dealing with their synthetic problems until the Reapers came. They just had discovered their way of vast communication with the beacons and barely experimenting on Mass relays. We also have to take note that Javik even states that they got THEIR tech from the race before them yet kept it a secrete.

So there is no way they just created the ark ships in that time span. They were dealing with so much and still had yet to bring order to their galaxy. Tis true many races were under their control however they had yet to obtain true control of their galaxy and were waging a war with the synthetics/ the Rachni.

There is no way that in the SOL relay system that there is an data file on the crucible AND an Ark ship near the relay system. It is already bad that the COUNCIL races that give you so much shit will WORK together on this yet won't HELP Shepard because it isn't like Shepard is trying to save the galaxy and all. Oh wait they can work together to build ark ships......the war BARELY was near 1 year. No way in hell we could build THAT many ark ships in time. Fuck it took nearly 1 year for the crucible to get built.
And there is said to be 12 ark ships.....

>Reading Terramine posts

MB, plz.

Rifneno wrote:>Reading Terramine posts

MB, plz.

You know. Ignoring someone is a good way to miss when they surpass you intellectually. Herpderp.

Master Blaster wrote:Actually the Protheans were not fully expanded. They in truth were still dealing with their synthetic problems until the Reapers came. They just had discovered their way of vast communication with the beacons and barely experimenting on Mass relays. We also have to take note that Javik even states that they got THEIR tech from the race before them yet kept it a secrete.

So there is no way they just created the ark ships in that time span. They were dealing with so much and still had yet to bring order to their galaxy. Tis true many races were under their control however they had yet to obtain true control of their galaxy and were waging a war with the synthetics/ the Rachni.

There is no way that in the SOL relay system that there is an data file on the crucible AND an Ark ship near the relay system. It is already bad that the COUNCIL races that give you so much shit will WORK together on this yet won't HELP Shepard because it isn't like Shepard is trying to save the galaxy and all. Oh wait they can work together to build ark ships......the war BARELY was near 1 year. No way in hell we could build THAT many ark ships in time. Fuck it took nearly 1 year for the crucible to get built.
And there is said to be 12 ark ships.....

They were a lot closer than you claim. They were integrating other species into their empire, literally they reached a point where being "Prothean" didn't even mean a single species. In order for that level of dominance, you basically have to rule things. You may not literally have a colony on /every planet/ but you're so spread out and in control that you're still literally everywhere. Which would largely highlight the importance of needing more room even on the galactic scale. Also, who else would need an ARK? Except a species that is basically a bunch of different species under the same banner? It was designed to carry entire populations of several intelligent species at once.

Also I love how immediate you make all this sound. Sure they had a Synthetic conflict to deal with, but it hardly actually stopped their progress or their control of things and they actually started coming out on top in the conflict likely because they were as dominant as they were.

Anyways you missed the "leak" that suggested the Ark was something that was found well before the Reapers showed up. I'm not sure what your source is on 12 Ark ships. But even if that were the case, the reason they were so iffy about helping Shepard with the Crucible even after everything is because 1.They were watching out for their own species and 2.The Crucible was a complete mystery that we didn't even fully comprehend. You're basically trying to compare the Crucible, to the Ark, which is so dishonest I don't even. You're basically criticizing that the galaxy would be more motivated to build Arks rather than Crucibles. Despite it making /perfect sense/. If anything, the choice of the Arks would explain that much more why the Council didn't care about helping Shepard.

The Ark explanation patches up a LOT of holes. Like the council being so retarded that they'd basically do NOTHING about the Reapers? I call bullshit and the Ark backs me up.

Regarding construction. It took less than a year to construct a vast device, that was BEYOND their comprehension. The Arks, while beyond the current technology, has no reason to be beyond their comprehension like the Crucible. Factor in that they probably weren't anywhere near putting in all manpower and resources the Galaxy itself could afford, when building the crucible. If anything, the construction of the crucible holds out as a significant example in canon for this being completely feasible. If anything, I'll call you CRAZY for believing they actually constructed something like the Crucible they did under the circumstances they did. But you can't believe they built these ships.

Terramine wrote:I love how you guys keep poking holes in this, and then some new tidbit of information shows an easy rationale that you all missed, that shows how it's perfectly logical. But then you keep goin on about how irrational and lore breaking something like this is because you guys can't conceive of an explanation.

You accuse us of poking holes in this, but you're on the other side trying to fix all those holes with cardboard instead of cement.

The fact that you call even somethings of Andromeda 'perfectly logical' makes me seriously wonder your intellect.