(XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Jusseb wrote:You accuse us of poking holes in this, but you're on the other side trying to fix

Eh, passive rationalization is something that comes natural to me. I just sorta automatically know what there is to realize about something. So as soon as I even started reading the word "Ark" my brain sprung into action on it's own every which way. I don't have to "try" because I just inherently see the logic and illogical surrounding it.

Jusseb wrote:with cardboard instead of cement.

That's a claim you're making, for sure. But unless you back it up, my logic stands the test of time. Actually refute the shit I've said so far, present your own arguments, whatever. Or shut up.

Jusseb wrote:The fact that you call even somethings of Andromeda 'perfectly logical' makes me seriously wonder your intellect.

Straw men are always fun.

Terramine wrote:There is no mention of Liara knowing about the Ark. Just that her research is used. Which makes sense, Liara isn't JUST Shepard's lap dog. She's a top researcher. Meaning the shit she finds? Reaches people she doesn't even know about.

Liara should know, otherwise she makes one hell of a lame shadowbroker. She has spies everywhere and building the ARK (if we had to build it) takes a whole lot of researchers, materials and supplies. You can’t hide that shit. She would know.

Terramine wrote:One of the biggest assumptions made by you guys, is what exactly is going on thematically speaking. That Shepard was "supposed" to break out of indoctrination. That we were supposed to overthrow the Reapers, etc. When it's easily possible that the actual story we got was that basically, the Reapers won as usual. But this cycle was significant in particular because it was the cycle where they branched out into another galaxy. Maybe Mass Effect is a story about the Reaper's next big step in advancement.

If Shepard wasn’t supposed to break out of indoctrination, why do we see the actual breathscene at the end of the destroy ending? And trust me the reason Bioware goes to another galaxy hundreds of years later is not to bring back anything from the old storyline.

Terramine wrote:It's also just flat out possible that they didn't know about it. Because it wasn't originally created to escape the Reapers. But rather was something the Protheans cooked up before the Reapers ever showed up because they had /spread over the entire galaxy canonically speaking/. The pinnacle they were at, this kind of technology makes perfect sense actually. They had conquered the entire galaxy. They are EXACTLY the kind of civilization that would be planning to... oh I don't know... travel to another galaxy altogether?

And perhaps they even purposely kept it secret from the Reapers. Maybe it was a part of their plan to join the next cycle and guide them. Perhaps instead of leading a new battle against the Reapers, like Javik thinks was the plan, in actuality they were planning on basically saying "Hey guys, there's these giant killer machines coming, let's hop on board this ark and hop to the next galaxy over where we all will be safe".

Nothing is really secret for the Reapers. Remember when Javik said that the indoctrination spread even till the highest order of the Protean hierarchy.  If it was there, they would’ve known about it.

Terramine wrote:Eh, passive rationalization is something that comes natural to me. I just sorta automatically know what there is to realize about something. So as soon as I even started reading the word "Ark" my brain sprung into action on it's own every which way. I don't have to "try" because I just inherently see the logic and illogical surrounding it.

You just sorta automatically know what there is to realize about something. I have that to. I just sorta automatically know a smartass when I see one.

Terramine wrote:That's a claim you're making, for sure. But unless you back it up, my logic stands the test of time. Actually refute the shit I've said so far, present your own arguments, whatever. Or shut up.

Let’s call it your arguments, because logic wise it doesn’t really make sense half of the time.

the fact liara, the shadow broker and font of all knowledge, didn't know about the arks kinda tells us that mac is making his bullshit up as he goes.

Guys.  Arguing with Terra is like arguing with a hardcore religious nut.  Just don't bother.  If even I won't argue with someone, that should tell you how futile it is.

Rifneno wrote:Guys.  Arguing with Terra is like arguing with a hardcore religious nut.  Just don't bother.  If even I won't argue with someone, that should tell you how futile it is.

THIS.

Right down to dogmatically defending an apparently poorly constructed narrative device (ME:A, Ark) with another poorly constructed narrative device (ME3, Crucible).

Also got curious and looked up "Passive Rationalization" - literally a psychological term for when an individual attempts to avoid any negative associations with their particular set of beliefs.
Make of that what you will.

Jusseb wrote:Liara should know, otherwise she makes one hell of a lame shadowbroker. She has spies everywhere and building the ARK (if we had to build it) takes a whole lot of researchers, materials and supplies. You can’t hide that shit. She would know.

Even if the information was "there". There is a huge disconnect here. Which is the information within TSB's network VS what gets seen and accessed by TSB. TSB does not sit there and literally learn ALL the information passing through their network, nor all the information that is already there when they take the place of the previous Shadow Broker. Considering the amount of information being processed on a constant basis, and the amount of information they already have, that would be an insane feat to accomplish. If the information IS in fact in TSB's network, it's probably been there since Arkcon was discovered. Meaning it's an old file that wouldn't get re-addressed. It most likely would get completely glossed over/unseen by TSB specifically.

The question is, even if the information was stored. How would TSB know to look for it? It has no link to the Reapers or the crucible or anything that would be relevant to the situation. At best it's stored under "Arkcon, an inter-galactic ship". Unless Liara were to get the idea herself, to look if such a thing existed. Which is very specific and, she shouldn't have any sort of expectation that it does. So what the fuck? How the fuck would she know about it?

Jusseb wrote:If Shepard wasn’t supposed to break out of indoctrination, why do we see the actual breathscene at the end of the destroy ending?

This is pretty much the equivalent to asking "If man evolved from monkeys, why is there still monkeys". Red herring, big time. Shepard breathing doesn't mean he's not indoctrinated, like holy shit. Amazing, I know.

Jusseb wrote:Nothing is really secret for the Reapers. Remember when Javik said that the indoctrination spread even till the highest order of the Protean hierarchy.  If it was there, they would’ve known about it.

That was way into the war. Near the end of it. Arkcon is something we knew about, before we even knew about the crucible. Before the Reapers even showed up. Not to mention that my point was, they could have factored in indoctrination and made sure nobody working on it was indoctrinated. You know, the thing they could have done with the Crucible but blatantly chose not to by sending pretty much literally anyone.

Rifneno wrote:Guys.  Arguing with Terra is like arguing with a hardcore religious nut.  Just don't bother.  If even I won't argue with someone, that should tell you how futile it is.

That's funny, considering you know... you won't argue with anyone here period. You block out everybody, and have slammed down your honey badger banhammer on literally everybody. Yet turn around and say to those same people that they shouldn't interact with me because you won't. Herpderp.

Also, a hardcore religious nut is narrow minded and their beliefs are set regardless of evidence or reason.

I've literally went from Pro-Destroy, to Pro-Refuse, to Pro-Nothing. And this whole "Pro-Arkcon" situation, is literally a newly unfolding thing. It's a new opinion, being formed. Whether or not you agree with that transition. It blatantly proves you wrong. You're literally saying that I'm extremist fundamentalist, simply because I don't bend in the direction you want. The fact that I bend at all proves you wrong.

Valsamon wrote:Right down to dogmatically defending

Lmao, NO. It's y'all who never bend. It's y'all who are biased. We've been over this, Restrider confirmed it. He was shocked at the reaction y'all had to the whole refuse debacle for a reason. If he was here now, he'd be saying the same thing about your attitude about discourse on Arkcon.

Valsamon wrote:an apparently poorly constructed narrative device (ME:A, Ark)

Which is a judgement that you all made literally IMMEDIATELY upon hearing the idea. No discussion has been made because the automatic response was to spew out half-assed reasons why it broke the lore. In fact, this interaction IS THE DISCUSSION

The first discussion on it. But even when we have something new to talk about. Something that hasn't been covered before, hasn't been analyzed and discussed. I get THE SAME EXACT REACTION as I got with the refuse discourse. "Don't talk about it because herpderp". Proving absolutely and positively that you all are literally just a hive mind spewing your bullshit without thinking about it. That it is completely biased and in fact DOGMATIC. Read em and weep, BITCHES.

Valsamon wrote:with another poorly constructed narrative device (ME3, Crucible).

I like when people throw out claims, as if they're what the majority agrees with. Most people here, do not think of the Crucible as a poorly constructed narrative device because they don't accept the literalist interpretation. They don't actually believe that it does the space magix. And you being an ITer, it doesn't make sense that you are talking like you DO. Not to mention the overwhelming evidence that says the crucible is a Reaper trap. Which makes your assertion complete nonsense here.

Valsamon wrote:Also got curious and looked up "Passive Rationalization" - literally a psychological term for when an individual attempts to avoid any negative associations with their particular set of beliefs.
Make of that what you will.

Except the thing is, "passive rationalization" is something I was coining on the spot. It's an expression I literally just made up. So the odds that I would both mean the same thing as an actual word that exists, as well as happen to use the same exact terminology for a such a meaning as what is already established? Well let's just say I pretty much won the lottery a hundred times in a row LMAO

In fact I just looked up passive rationalization and I can't even find what you did. There's literally a single article of a guy ranting about people's "passive rationalization" of the supernatural. Fuck if I know what he means by that. But what matters is what I meant when I said it.

Rifneno wrote:They treated their fans like intelligent people with ME3.  The great majority proved that they are fucking idiots.  So now BW is treating ME's fanbase like fucking idiots because, aside from us, they are.

Oh, the tragedy. This hurts me. Because it's so true. And well put.

Do you hear that hum? is that just me?

Rifneno wrote:They treated their fans like intelligent people with ME3.  The great majority proved that they are fucking idiots.  So now BW is treating ME's fanbase like fucking idiots because, aside from us, they are.

The I.T apartheid that drove out this community from BSN to this forum is proof of that.

windsurfing wrote:

Rifneno wrote:They treated their fans like intelligent people with ME3.  The great majority proved that they are fucking idiots.  So now BW is treating ME's fanbase like fucking idiots because, aside from us, they are.

The I.T apartheid that drove out this community from BSN to this forum is proof of that.

almost like it was deliberate, but jabba only had thoughts for his next meal.

It was PR, they couldn't have 100s and 100s of players on their board pointing out the dozens of potholes of the ending then on top of that, formulating a very solid interpretation (IT) that was far superior to their shitberg Deus Ex ending.

So they genocided the IT thread and basically kicked us out of their little forum, all because they couldn't handle the discourse. They did the same thing with the 'Off Topic' board.

Is it actually still debatable there? Or will you get shot at first sight?

It is but everyone just gangs up on you and then the thread will get locked. I haven't posted on BSN in probably well over 2 years, ever since they got rid of the "Off Topic Board" there.

Also curious what they tink about the whole Andromeda idea there. I haven't been there in ages.

But I probably should keep it that way.

Jusseb wrote:Also curious what they tink about the whole Andromeda idea there. I haven't been there in ages.

But I probably should keep it that way.

if you value your sanity, don't.

I still go on there occasionally. Some of the threads will make your eyes bleed.

I peaked at BSN's ME:4ndromeda forum yesterday.  There's still a lot of negativity going by the thread topic titles.

Not that things are exactly peachy here, but over there the concerns are those of lesser intellects.

Really smart people don't feel the need to demonstrate how smart they are. That is just pathetic.

DoomsdayDevice wrote:Really smart people don't feel the need to demonstrate how smart they are. That is just pathetic.

I don't see where I did that? The point to the meme was that being nice is kinda anathema to speaking truths that people do not like. That was the point to rick saying it. He's smart so he'll tell you God doesn't exist or whatever else happens to be true that shatters the view of the majority.

Also Rick would TOTALLY demonstrate how smart he is if you dared to call it into question. It's not pathetic, it makes him akin to the God of the bible. You know, spiteful and dominant. It's badass. Only morons can't back up the fact that they are smart.

Oh and even Einstein went out of his way to say that only himself and a couple of his friends were remotely smart for their time. That everybody else was stupid. So the actual real world example of a Genius will bluntly tell you that you're stupid and he's smart lol. Hence the other point to the image.

In essence what you've said is moron and loser talk.

Valsamon wrote:Octopimp video

I like how you post a video that applies to itself. Some obscure lame youtuber that sings a song they think makes them funny or original when it does exactly the opposite. Nobody cares about Octopimp, nobody cares about this reference Valsamon.

Terramine wrote:Also sometimes it's just a big pain in the ass to drag on and on about a fictional universe, especially when it's a fictional universe or a discussion on some aspect of a fictional universe that I really could not give 2 shits. Or 3 shits on whether or not other people agree with me.

2387 posts.  

2387.

Be sure to let us know when you feel this has been dragging on and on enough won't you?