Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

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Re: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

Post by Guest on Wed Apr 09, 2014 7:43 pm

Centipede isn't a faction, but a project. I know what you mean, the people involved like Raina might turn on Garrett, but felt that needed pointing out.
I only think it's possible that Raina and even the Clairvoyant (whether Garrett is the real one or not) may have their own motivations. Even if Garrett is truly the Clairvoyant, if he was telling the truth in the last episode, he only works with HYDRA because he knows which way the tide is turning.
So there might be a tenuous cooperation of some sort. At least, the opening may be there.

First is the fact that they are a team, so having one become bad would make that part of the plane feel empty.

-I'm thinking more Simmons is 'bad' (or going bad) and Fitz has to 'go badder' in response. Drama.
-Replacement characters. Things change. Ward himself is seemingly being replaced by Triplett.
-No one is an innocent agent anymore. SHIELD is down, all of their highest ranking being dead or 'dead', and Coulson himself is a mixed case that most of SHIELD thought was dead.
-Simmons --> "But I'm getting better at it (lying)." Notice that she didn't do anything when Hand asked her to 'join' HYDRA. She didn't protest, she didn't eagerly join. She just did nothing, while it was Triplett that fought back.
-So it's not so much that Fitz and Simmons are the embedded HYDRA agents (that role is Ward), but they MAY be taking both their own 'darker routes' to keep them interesting to audiences. Even separating them (for the first? second time?) seems to signify that. They're supposed to be tied to the hip..


No, I meant you. You did it in response to Fur, and I did it in response to you. If there wasn't a trend, I probably wouldn't have followed it.

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Re: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Wed Apr 09, 2014 8:11 pm

SwobyJ wrote:
Centipede isn't a faction, but a project. I know what you mean, the people involved like Raina might turn on Garrett, but felt that needed pointing out.
I only think it's possible that Raina and even the Clairvoyant (whether Garrett is the real one or not) may have their own motivations. Even if Garrett is truly the Clairvoyant, if he was telling the truth in the last episode, he only works with HYDRA because he knows which way the tide is turning.
So there might be a tenuous cooperation of some sort. At least, the opening may be there.
Oh, I hope the characters have their own motivations. Nothing is more boring in a spy series than mindless followers unless they are special themselves.

First is the fact that they are a team, so having one become bad would make that part of the plane feel empty.

-I'm thinking more Simmons is 'bad' (or going bad) and Fitz has to 'go badder' in response. Drama.
-Replacement characters. Things change. Ward himself is seemingly being replaced by Triplett.
-No one is an innocent agent anymore. SHIELD is down, all of their highest ranking being dead or 'dead', and Coulson himself is a mixed case that most of SHIELD thought was dead.
-Simmons --> "But I'm getting better at it (lying)." Notice that she didn't do anything when Hand asked her to 'join' HYDRA. She didn't protest, she didn't eagerly join. She just did nothing, while it was Triplett that fought back.
-So it's not so much that Fitz and Simmons are the embedded HYDRA agents (that role is Ward), but they MAY be taking both their own 'darker routes' to keep them interesting to audiences. Even separating them (for the first? second time?) seems to signify that. They're supposed to be tied to the hip..
I really can't discuss the SHIELD/HYRDA since I don't want to spoil Winter Soldier for you.

I saw that line as her simply not telling everything to Triplett since she can't fully trust him.
Ah, by darker routes I thought you meant they were also traitors and stuff. Yes I see them getting darker as in the reality of the spy world sets in on them. After all, being with Coulson is their first field assignment so before that they were literally in a bubble about how the game goes. I would say Skye would follow suit but as stated she is a portal for the audience as someone to relate to.


No, I meant you. You did it in response to Fur, and I did it in response to you. If there wasn't a trend, I probably wouldn't have followed it.
I hadn't replied before you started doing spoiler tags. Fur posted first, then you, then me, then Rif. But let's not bicker over this.  Joyful 
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Re: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

Post by Guest on Wed Apr 09, 2014 8:32 pm

You're right, I was before you with the spoiler tags! My mistake. I guess I was misremembering.

I know much of the results of Winter Soldier, I just don't know all of them since I haven't seen it myself yet. I have no problem with spoilers.

I can very well see Simmons being so captured by the possibilities of science, that she'll take assistance with it from any faction, where Fitz becomes more of a hardened engineer over time. Thus clashes. Like in any Whedon show (even if its technically not him), we'd look back and go "Wow, stuff happened. 0_0"

Skye probably doesn't have any close secrets, but I can see her getting deep into something else. Possibly related to emerging powers?

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Re: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Wed Apr 09, 2014 8:58 pm

SwobyJ wrote:You're right, I was before you with the spoiler tags! My mistake. I guess I was misremembering.

I know much of the results of Winter Soldier, I just don't know all of them since I haven't seen it myself yet. I have no problem with spoilers.

I can very well see Simmons being so captured by the possibilities of science, that she'll take assistance with it from any faction, where Fitz becomes more of a hardened engineer over time. Thus clashes. Like in any Whedon show (even if its technically not him), we'd look back and go "Wow, stuff happened. 0_0"

Skye probably doesn't have any close secrets, but I can see her getting deep into something else. Possibly related to emerging powers?
It's fine.

Ah, okay. That makes it easier to discuss the SHIELD/HYDRA stuff then. Overall let's just say the only people we know are good are: Nick Fury, Maria Hill, Steve Rogers, Natasha Romanov, and Phillip Coulson. That said, Coulson's team minus Ward obviously I think are pretty safe to say are with the good SHIELD. I'd rather not have another Battlestar Galactica where every other person is a sleeper agent since it gets old.

With Fitz and Simmons, I see them facing the moral dilemma all scientists face: Do you limit your potential in science to preserve your own heart, or do you sacrifice your heart to fully devote yourself to science?

And yeah, Skye's plot will be discovering what she is since she is an 084.

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Re: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

Post by DSharrah on Thu Apr 10, 2014 12:24 am

Gotta say that I didn't like the twist of Ward being a sleeper agent...I guess its fitting since "Hydra is everywhere" according to the events set in Winter Soldier - but I sure felt like Coulson's team should have been immune.

Spoiler:
It will be interesting to see if we ever get a Samuel Jackson cameo to reveal that Nick Fury is alive.

It will also be interesting to see how this ties into the future of the Marvel Universe as a whole - and more granularly into the future movies.

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Re: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

Post by Guest on Thu Apr 10, 2014 12:34 am

"but I sure felt like Coulson's team should have been immune."

And you're an ITer?  Laughing 

Anyway, SLJ is supposed to show up at least for the season finale.

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Re: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

Post by DSharrah on Thu Apr 10, 2014 12:40 am

SwobyJ wrote:"but I sure felt like Coulson's team should have been immune."

And you're an ITer?  Laughing 

Anyway, SLJ is supposed to show up at least for the season finale.

And I am one of the few IT'ers that has said from the very beginning that I wouldn't like there being a traitor amongst Shep's crew...call me an optimist. But it always stings me when someone that you're led to believe turns out to be a baddie...not to say that it doesn't work. But there's a part of me that wishes that there was that "us against the world" mentality with the "main characters"...

It needs to be said that Marvel is doing a great job though, they have me hooked and I never feel like I can wait to get more.

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Re: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Thu Apr 10, 2014 4:39 am

DSharrah wrote:
SwobyJ wrote:"but I sure felt like Coulson's team should have been immune."

And you're an ITer?  Laughing 

Anyway, SLJ is supposed to show up at least for the season finale.

And I am one of the few IT'ers that has said from the very beginning that I wouldn't like there being a traitor amongst Shep's crew...call me an optimist.  But it always stings me when someone that you're led to believe turns out to be a baddie...not to say that it doesn't work.  But there's a part of me that wishes that there was that "us against the world" mentality with the "main characters"...

It needs to be said that Marvel is doing a great job though, they have me hooked and I never feel like I can wait to get more.

I felt the same way. Like Garrett for example, I figured he was probably going to be a bad guy since they got a huge actor to play him so he wasn't going to be a background character, but since I liked him so much I hoped he wouldn't.

As for Ward, I have to say that if anyone had to be the Hydra spy I am glad it was him because he is my least favorite character of the team.
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Re: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

Post by Guest on Thu Apr 10, 2014 4:57 am

So so far it is...

Coulson - Darker?
Skye - Lighter?
Mai - Lighter
Fitz - Darker.. maybe
Simmons - Darker.. probably
Ward - Much Darker

Oh it's a 'Whedon show'. Are Skye and Mai going to be the ones to keep the group on track and fighting the *good* fight?

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Re: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Thu Apr 10, 2014 5:02 am

SwobyJ wrote:So so far it is...

Coulson - Darker?
Skye - Lighter?
Mai - Lighter
Fitz - Darker.. maybe
Simmons - Darker.. probably
Ward - Much Darker

Oh it's a 'Whedon show'. Are Skye and Mai going to be the ones to keep the group on track and fighting the *good* fight?
It's May, not Mai. Just pointing that out.

I don't really see how Coulson will get darker. I mean, he was getting darker because he hated all the secrets but in Winter Soldier those secrets aren't secrets anymore.
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Re: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

Post by Guest on Thu Apr 10, 2014 5:13 am

Right, Melinda May. I keep messing that up -_-

Coulson won't give a damn about SHIELD regulations anymore, nor moral standards (at least to an extent, and temporarily).
IMO he said it ALL with his "Survive" line. But yeah, 'darker' does not necessarily mean 'evil' here.

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Re: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

Post by DSharrah on Thu Apr 10, 2014 5:23 pm

SwobyJ wrote:snip...

-Simmons --> "But I'm getting better at it (lying)." Notice that she didn't do anything when Hand asked her to 'join' HYDRA. She didn't protest, she didn't eagerly join. She just did nothing, while it was Triplett that fought back.

snip...

Didn't she throw the knife back to Triplett...the one that he handed her earlier and said, "If you try to kill me with it, I'll know that I can't trust you." Otherwise he wouldn't have anything to threaten the guy with...

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Re: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

Post by Guest on Thu Apr 10, 2014 5:38 pm

DSharrah wrote:
SwobyJ wrote:snip...

-Simmons --> "But I'm getting better at it (lying)." Notice that she didn't do anything when Hand asked her to 'join' HYDRA. She didn't protest, she didn't eagerly join. She just did nothing, while it was Triplett that fought back.

snip...

Didn't she throw the knife back to Triplett...the one that he handed her earlier and said, "If you try to kill me with it, I'll know that I can't trust you."  Otherwise he wouldn't have anything to threaten the guy with...

That's true. I'm not necessarily saying she's HYDRA. Only that they've left the opening now for Simmons to go another route than 100% SHIELD. Or at least make her unsure of where people lie (her conversation later with HAND could be foreshadowing of that).

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Re: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

Post by Guest on Thu Apr 10, 2014 6:47 pm

lol IMDB:

Fools! Hydra does not suffer the idiocy of common folk. You're either with us or against us. No dilly dallying. But I won't come to you as your sworn enemy. Oh no, that would be too easy. I'm your best buddy in college. I attended your wedding. I'm godfather to your kids. But at that critical moment when you aren't looking? Shank, a knife in your ribs. You'll die confused and bewildered how your enemy could have gotten so close.

Then I'll *beep* your sister. Hail Hydra

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Re: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

Post by Guest on Fri Apr 11, 2014 6:48 am


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Re: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Fri Apr 11, 2014 10:23 am

Thanks for the cool video Swoby.
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Re: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

Post by Rifneno on Fri Apr 11, 2014 1:15 pm

SwobyJ wrote:Yeah I don't really think this one either. Would be neat if both Fitz and Simmons were part of something though, given what happened to Ward's position on the show :) The show first makes us think that Fitz and Simmons are wanting their stuff secret for good reasons, but at least Simmons is starting to be given suspicious lines.

Yeah. Maybe it's nothing, but I noticed that she never turned the screen back on while Triplett was there. Even after she told him what they were working on. We also don't know who was sending out the Hydra signal. Could... could that have been what she was doing? I sure hope not. I'm not okay with more than one of Coulson's team turning traitor. One traitor is good storytelling but multiples in such a small team? No thank you.
Besides, I really like Simmons. :(

I was sure that Garrett was HYDRA and that Mai was genuine (so I'll actually be surprised if either turn out to be otherwise).

I never even suspected Garrett. I'm so used to shows treating me like an idiot and spelling everything out in giant flashing letters that I've begun to think like one. To quote Aria, "I'm not easily duped. Well done." Looking forward to more of this series. Television that makes me use my brain is unheardof.

HYDRA wants to find out about Coulson simply because they want to resurrect Red Skull.

That's actually a good theory, not crazy. The only thing is, they'd still need his body and probably relatively in-tact. I forget how he ended up... is it possible that Hydra got ahold of his body and had it in cryo for 70 years? Did he go down with the plane with Cap?

Hanako Ikezawa wrote:I really can't discuss the SHIELD/HYRDA since I don't want to spoil Winter Soldier for you.

*grumble*
This sucks. I can't see WS in the theaters because my back is too bad for the crappy theater seats. I can't find a pirate copy that's even "decent" by the low standards of cams. Apparently I have to wait for the blu-ray release whether I like it or not. FML.

As for Ward, I have to say that if anyone had to be the Hydra spy I am glad it was him because he is my least favorite character of the team.

I'm kind of surprised it isn't May. But yeah, ditto.

-----

So I had a crazy idea. Like, Swoby level crazy. The name of this episode was "Turn, Turn, Turn." That's 3 turns. But we only had 2 real turns. Garrett and Ward. The third might be referring to Hand but she never really changed sides, she was just a red (highlighted) herring. So if the title is about traitors and if the third one isn't about Hand... who was it?

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Re: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

Post by Guest on Fri Apr 11, 2014 5:43 pm

One traitor is good storytelling but multiples in such a small team? No thank you.

Kinda agree, but on the other hand, SHIELD itself was totally infested with HYDRA 0_0.

I'd prefer her not being HYDRA, but something else. Heck, I dunno, be a secret alien or something. What were those people.. Skrulls? Sorry, I'm not familiar with the Secret Invasion storyline.

Not saying I'd like that. In fact, I'd be happy with her just being more allied to 'the Academy' than larger SHIELD for some reason. Anyway, things are too vague about her that the most that can *reasonably* be said about her is that she's been shiftier than expected lately.

I like Simmons too and if she's up to something, I hope it's understandable/redeemable enough (like it looks like with May) that it'll be okay!

I never even suspected Garrett. I'm so used to shows treating me like an idiot and spelling everything out in giant flashing letters that I've begun to think like one. To quote Aria, "I'm not easily duped. Well done." Looking forward to more of this series. Television that makes me use my brain is unheardof.

IKR. It's not the smartest *looking* show (eh, it's Marvel and Disney!), but its becoming clear that the showrunner are making it as smart as possible without alienating viewers. Depending on how the rest of the season goes, I may end up REALLY respecting them for this.

That's actually a good theory, not crazy. The only thing is, they'd still need his body and probably relatively in-tact. I forget how he ended up... is it possible that Hydra got ahold of his body and had it in cryo for 70 years? Did he go down with the plane with Cap?

Didn't see the full first Cap movie, but I think he was technically teleported to another realm? Dramatically, I can see this being their goal, but logically, it's a big shot in the dark. HYDRA just = Red Skull in many cases, so I'd hope that Coulson being important to them might have to do with Red Skull, especially with such a tie in to Captain America going on.

Maybe they want to construct a body that can house Red Skull's mind? *shrug*

I'm still open to the Clairvoyant/Cenepede being specifically interested in Coulson for their own reason, and HYDRA not caring, at least not nearly as much.

*grumble*
This sucks. I can't see WS in the theaters because my back is too bad for the crappy theater seats. I can't find a pirate copy that's even "decent" by the low standards of cams. Apparently I have to wait for the blu-ray release whether I like it or not. FML.

Yeah I'm not even interested in paying to see it (in theaters at least). I'll have to wait as well. It shouldn't be a spoiler for you at this point that SHIELD was pretty much HYDRA's rot, with only people like Fury, maybe Hand, seemingly Coulson being pure and shocked by events. Well actually, Fury seemed to always suspect that something was going on.

The path forward might be a smaller and leaner group that eventually decides to rebuild SHIELD with a new mandate, structure, and approach. Compare Older-Movie Coulson with Resurrected-Show Coulson. But for now, everyone's pissed and scared.

So I had a crazy idea. Like, Swoby level crazy. The name of this episode was "Turn, Turn, Turn." That's 3 turns. But we only had 2 real turns. Garrett and Ward. The third might be referring to Hand but she never really changed sides, she was just a red (highlighted) herring. So if the title is about traitors and if the third one isn't about Hand... who was it?

Dunno :O

That's a good take on the title though.

Another take I've read elsewhere is what if..:
-Ward is HYDRA at heart, pretending to be SHIELD infiltrating HYDRA for Coulson
-Tripplet (Triple) is SHIELD at heart, pretending to be HYDRA (idea is dependent on this pat) infiltrating SHIELD for Garrett (the whole angry yelling at him being a ruse)

Which is much more of a stretch so... I'll take your interpretation as much more likely as the episodes progress. Ward is really bad. Triplet is really good. Garret is really bad. But there's a 3rd that gets revealed over time.

But it might be interesting?
Ward being positioned as a very bad guy, when he's really just on Coulson's orders. (this would annoy a lot of viewers from what I've seen though, who want the writers to stick with it)
Tripplet being positioned as a much better and noble guy, when he's really just on Garrett's orders.

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Re: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Fri Apr 11, 2014 11:23 pm

That's actually a good theory, not crazy. The only thing is, they'd still need his body and probably relatively in-tact. I forget how he ended up... is it possible that Hydra got ahold of his body and had it in cryo for 70 years? Did he go down with the plane with Cap?

Didn't see the full first Cap movie, but I think he was technically teleported to another realm? Dramatically, I can see this being their goal, but logically, it's a big shot in the dark. HYDRA just = Red Skull in many cases, so I'd hope that Coulson being important to them might have to do with Red Skull, especially with such a tie in to Captain America going on.

Maybe they want to construct a body that can house Red Skull's mind? *shrug*

I'm still open to the Clairvoyant/Cenepede being specifically interested in Coulson for their own reason, and HYDRA not caring, at least not nearly as much.
You are correct. At the end of the first film, Red Skull was teleported to another realm by the Tesseract.

*grumble*
This sucks. I can't see WS in the theaters because my back is too bad for the crappy theater seats. I can't find a pirate copy that's even "decent" by the low standards of cams. Apparently I have to wait for the blu-ray release whether I like it or not. FML.

Yeah I'm not even interested in paying to see it (in theaters at least). I'll have to wait as well. It shouldn't be a spoiler for you at this point that SHIELD was pretty much HYDRA's rot, with only people like Fury, maybe Hand, seemingly Coulson being pure and shocked by events. Well actually, Fury seemed to always suspect that something was going on.

The path forward might be a smaller and leaner group that eventually decides to rebuild SHIELD with a new mandate, structure, and approach. Compare Older-Movie Coulson with Resurrected-Show Coulson. But for now, everyone's pissed and scared.
If you guys really want, I can tell you what happens in more detail.

So I had a crazy idea. Like, Swoby level crazy. The name of this episode was "Turn, Turn, Turn." That's 3 turns. But we only had 2 real turns. Garrett and Ward. The third might be referring to Hand but she never really changed sides, she was just a red (highlighted) herring. So if the title is about traitors and if the third one isn't about Hand... who was it?

Dunno :O

That's a good take on the title though.

Another take I've read elsewhere is what if..:
-Ward is HYDRA at heart, pretending to be SHIELD infiltrating HYDRA for Coulson
-Tripplet (Triple) is SHIELD at heart, pretending to be HYDRA (idea is dependent on this pat) infiltrating SHIELD for Garrett (the whole angry yelling at him being a ruse)

Which is much more of a stretch so... I'll take your interpretation as much more likely as the episodes progress. Ward is really bad. Triplet is really good. Garret is really bad. But there's a 3rd that gets revealed over time.

But it might be interesting?
Ward being positioned as a very bad guy, when he's really just on Coulson's orders. (this would annoy a lot of viewers from what I've seen though, who want the writers to stick with it)
Tripplet being positioned as a much better and noble guy, when he's really just on Garrett's orders.
The first turn could refer to HYDRA being in SHIELD in general.
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Re: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

Post by Rifneno on Mon Apr 14, 2014 11:57 am

Oh yeah, I almost forgot.  Been forgetting for weeks.  Remember when the "Clairvoyant" killed Poe?  That weird thing on his face... same as the paralyzing grenades in the train episode later.  Poe's not dead.  Then again, probably common knowledge by now.

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Re: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

Post by ZerebusPrime on Wed Apr 16, 2014 1:03 am

Wait. If Garrett is Hydra, who tried to kill him at the start of the episode?
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Re: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

Post by Guest on Wed Apr 16, 2014 4:58 am

Coulson is going all Renegade Shepard.

EDIT: Also lol @ all my previous thoughts about Ward.

EDIT2: Hey Raina, wanna try out the light side? We have cookies.

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Re: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

Post by ericformans_sisterisdead on Wed Apr 16, 2014 6:07 am

Ive had the past two eps in my dvr and i just watched them after getting back from seeing captain america.WOW.....thats how you tie in a tv and movie universe.Its night and day how much better this show has gotten. My only thing i hated was that damn patton oswald call of duty line  Picard Facepalm  really marvel/abc?   I just hope next ep we dont get a cheesy one liner how fitz and the black guy like to sit in the cockpit and play that crap of a game called titanfall

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Re: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

Post by Guest on Wed Apr 16, 2014 6:12 am

That line was so cringeworthy and I can easily imagine the actors themselves going 'wtf'.

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Re: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:32 am

Rifneno wrote:Oh yeah, I almost forgot.  Been forgetting for weeks.  Remember when the "Clairvoyant" killed Poe?  That weird thing on his face... same as the paralyzing grenades in the train episode later.  Poe's not dead.  Then again, probably common knowledge by now.
Until the train episode, I actually thought what Garrett used was the sound weapon Obadiah Stane used in Iron Man 1.
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Re: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

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